From: ane-digest-owner@oi.uchicago.edu To: ane-digest@oi.uchicago.edu Subject: Ancient Near East Digest V1 #24 Reply-To: ane@oi.uchicago.edu Errors-To: ane-digest-owner@oi.uchicago.edu Precedence: bulk Ancient Near East Digest Friday, 29 October 1993 Volume 01 : Number 024 In this issue: nazism Re: Physical anthropology and the ANE *ELECTRONIC ANTIQUITY* 1, 5 Phoenicians in America Re: Physical anthropology and the ANE Re: Physical anthropology and the ANE ANE studies and WW II RE; ARMENIAN GENOCIDE AND SCHO Phoenicians in Ancient America, etc. Re: Physical anthropology and the ANE Re: Physical anthropology and the ANE Nazi scholars Re: NOTH AND NAZIISM Re: ANE studies and WW II H G Guterbock's response Unsubscribing ANE Studies and Nazis Re: Nazi scholars Re: >Physical anthropology a Re: Phoenicians in Ancient America, etc. Re: Nazi scholars Re: Physical anthropology and the ANE Re: ANE studies and WW II See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the ANE or ANE-Digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Vanderhooft Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 23:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: nazism As a junior scholar plotting an academic career, and as one whose political sensibilities have been refined only by the campus politics of the 80s and 90s, Chuck Jone's initial posting seems strangely arcane. But this in itself is good reason for reflecting on the impact of nazism in Near Eastern studies. Richard Beal has suggested that biographers be assigned this task while the rest of us get on with assessing the work rather than characters of our forebears. I rather agree with Baruch Halpern that the testimony should remain public property where we as a community of scholars are forced to reflect on it. To what end? Well, one thinks as an example of the problem of the origins and contact of Sumerians and Akkadians. Would it be wise to ignore the context and particular ideological programs of scholars who sought to clarify this issue in this century? Do these programs emerge from the published work alone, or can other sources of information be useful? David Vanderhooft NELC, Harvard vanderho@husc.harvard.edu ------------------------------ From: george m jacobs Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 21:52:10 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Physical anthropology and the ANE On Thu, 28 Oct 1993, Seth L Sanders wrote: > the mormons have been arguing the similarity between mayan and semitic > things for many years. America B.C. is a book by a Harvard anthropologist > worth checking out for a laugh that enumerates just how many hittites, > perezites, jebusites, hivites and others have been here, according to > various hoaxes of the 19th and 20th centuries. inherently suspicious ground! > Sorry, but Barry Fell, author of _America B.C._, is *NOT* an anthropologist, but a marine biologist and, apparently, self-taught epigrapher (see his _Epigraphic Society_ and its publication for some truuly bizarre material). Fell is dismissed as a joke by 99% of the professional American archaeological community. See Kenneth L. Feder (_Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries: Science and Pseudoscience in Archaeology_, Mountain View, CA: Mayfield Publishing Co., 1991) and Stephen Willliams (_Fantastic Archaeology: The Wild Side of North American Prehistory_, Philadelphia, PA: University of Pennsylvania Press, 1991) for two recent serious efforts at challenging and debunking some of the idiocy propagated by Fell, et al. Williams, by the way, *is* a Harvard anthropologist/archaeologist. Feder is, I believe, at Central Connecticut State University. Feder's book is a model of how to deal with proponents of fringe theories in archaeology and I recommend it highly. Until now I have been a lurker on ANE-L. My principal interest is in the archaeology of the southwest US/northwest Mexico, but I spent two summers on the Arizona/Michigan excavation at Tabun, Mt. Carmel, in the early 1970s, and have tried to maintain some contact with the ANE through this list. I do hope it will not get sidetracked onto the question of trans-Atlantic contacts in ancient antiquity. Such contacts may very wlll have taken place, I just haven't seen any good, strong, credible evidence of such contacts. My feeling is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs. Is that unreasonable? In the meantime, my congratulations to Chuck Jones and contributors to ANE-L for creating and maintaining one of the best lists I know of. Mike Jacobs * Arizona State Museum * The University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 * tel: 602-621-6312 * email: jacobsg@gas.uug.arizona.edu ------------------------------ From: IAN.WORTHINGTON@classics.utas.edu.au Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 17:24:59 +1100 Subject: *ELECTRONIC ANTIQUITY* 1, 5 *ELECTRONIC ANTIQUITY: COMMUNICATING THE CLASSICS* As a subscriber to the electronic journal you are being contacted to let you know that Volume 1 Issue 5 (October 1993) is now available for access. The contents follow. *ELECTRONIC ANTIQUITY: COMMUNICATING THE CLASSICS* ISSN 1320-3606 Peter Toohey (Founding Editor) Ian Worthington (Editor) VOL. 1 ISSUE 5 - OCTOBER 1993 (01) LIST OF CONTENTS (02) FEATURES Hilton, John, 'Peoples of Azania' Levis, Richard, 'Allegory and the *Eclogues*' CASA Directory of Classical Scholars and Research for Higher Degrees at Universities in Sub-Saharan Africa Supplied by Bill Dominik (03) OPINIONS Goetsch, Sallie R., Euripides' *Electra* (King's College, London, 24 July 1993) O'Sullivan, Neil, 'Allusions of Grandeur? Thoughts on Allusion- Hunting in Latin Poetry' (04) EMPLOYMENT New Zealand: Classicist: Massey University South Africa: Classicist: University of Durban-Westville U.S.A.: Classicist: University of Oregon Philosopher (Ancient): Michigan State University (05) KEEPING IN TOUCH Conference: The Creation of Character: Ethos and Ethopoiia in Ancient Theory and Practice, Case Western Reserve University (programme) Conference: Greek and Roman Antiquity and the Classical Heritage, University of Kentucky (call for papers) Conference: The Personal Voice in Classical Scholarship, A.P.A. Panel Discussion 1994 (call for papers) Electronic Forums & Repositories for the Classics by Ian Worthington (06) GUIDELINES FOR CONTRIBUTORS *Electronic Antiquity* Vol. 1 Issue 5 - October 1993 edited by Peter Toohey and Ian Worthington antiquity-editor@classics.utas.edu.au ISSN 1320-3606 - ------------------------ A general announcement (aimed at non-subscribers) that the journal is available will be made in approximately 12 hours time over the lists - as a subscriber you will be automatically contacted in advance when future issues are available. Access is via gopher or ftp (instructions below). Volume 1 Issue 6 will be published in November. The editors welcome contributions. HOW TO ACCESS Access is via gopher or ftp. The journal file name of this issue is 1,5-October1993; Volume 1 Issues 1-4 may also be accessed in the same way. 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Since a few people had problems accessing the journal via ftp, here are the stages in more detail: at your system prompt: FTP at the subsequent prompt: open FTP.utas.edu.au at login prompt: anonymous at password: your username (which won't show) then: cd departments then: cd classics then: cd antiquity then: ls -l then: cd 1,5-October1993 then: ls -l You will now have a list of the various directories (the 'd' beginning each line 'drwx....' indicates you're dealing with a directory) then: cd (into whichever directory you want) then: ls -l If the first character in the line is not 'd', you've got a file. Use the 'get' command plus the file name to download. If you're still in a directory, use the 'ls-l' command to list its contents. Use 'get' to transfer files. To move back up the directory tree: type: cdup then: ls -l And repeat the process. If still having trouble, try, once you have the directory list for the journal: Type (for example) cd (01)Contents Your response should be 'CWD command successful', but no list. Type ls-l Your response should be in a form such as: - -rw-rw-r--1 1689 77030 Oct 29 15:30 contents Type get contents and you should have a copy. A final alternative if a space is magically inserted in the parenthesis of the file number is to specify: CD ./(01)Contents Please also be very careful when ftping *not* to leave *any* spaces in file names or make typos. Do NOT use Telnet. The best way to access the journal (in terms of both ease and time) is by gopher, and we would urge you to do so. The structure of the journal is also more easily recognisable on gopher. Please try to access *here* in Tasmania either during the night, very early morning or at weekends, since during the business day the lines are crammed. This means you'll need to check with (e.g.) the international operator for the right time difference, but at the moment (the following is not an exhaustive list) Britain is 10 hours behind Tasmania; Europe, west to east, 9-7 hours; East Coast U.S.A. 15 hours; West Coast U.S.A. 18 hours; South America, coastal to eastern, 14-16 hours, South Africa 9 hours; Singapore 3 hours; and Japan 2 hours. Queries and contributions may be directed to the editors at :antiquity-editor@classics.utas.edu.au. Peter Toohey (ptoohey@metz.une.edu.au) Ian Worthington (ian.worthington@classics.utas.edu.au) (end) - --------- Ian Worthington, Department of Classics, University of Tasmania, Hobart, Tasmania 7001, Australia. Tel. (002) 202294 (direct) Fax (002) 202288 e-mail: Ian.Worthington@classics.utas.edu.au ------------------------------ From: Mitch Allen Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 22:23:28 PDT Subject: Phoenicians in America I don't think anyone will argue the case that America was "discovered" by people walking across from Northeast Asia. What the crank theories tend to deal with was, who discovered them NEXT. While most current anthropologial work talks about three successive waves from East Asia (there is a recent article in Current Anthopology that summarizes the evidence), everyone else has been suggested as well: Vikings, Irish, Romans, Phoenicians, Lost Tribes, Polynes- ians, even spacemen. All of these theories are pretty crank at one level and not so far off on another. Each of these societies (presumably including the spacemen) had the maritime technology that, with a little bad luck might allow them to sail across the Atlantic or Pacific and land on the shores of the Western Hemisphere. Where they get wierd is when they use that not-altogether- unlikely historical accident to explain the rise of complex civilization in the Americas. The Phoenician sailors who made it, rather than being axed on the beach by some suspicious chief, or taken in and marry some villager's daughter only to be considered the village crazy because of his tales of a land far away across the ocean, were obviously genius enough to teach thes proto Mayans or Olmecs all about pyramid building (not usually a maritime specialty), writing, astronomy, complex social organization, etc. Presumably they never taught them how to make a wheel because there were no oxcarts shipboard. In short, the evidence that someone from the Old World might have sailed on a boat to the New World is not so farfetched to be unbelievable. It's what they did when they got there that makes these theories so off-the-wall. mitch - -- Mitch Allen, Sage Publications, Inc. 2455 Teller Road, Newbury Park, CA 91320 voice: (805) 499-0721 fax: (805) 499-0871 via Internet: mitch@sagepub.com ------------------------------ From: e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Wardini) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 09:54:32 +0100 Subject: Re: Physical anthropology and the ANE >E. D. Wardini mentions the Mormons and their assertion of things similar >between Maya and Semites. Tjhis interest stems I believe from their "Book of >Mormon"r Just for the record: I did not mention the Mormons Elie Wardini Department for East-European and Oriental Studies Semitic languages Post Box 1030 Blindern 0315 Oslo Norway tel. off.: +47 - 22 85 71 21 home: +47 - 22 19 03 49 Fax: +47 - 22 85 41 40 e-mail: e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no ------------------------------ From: e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Wardini) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 10:01:25 +0100 Subject: Re: Physical anthropology and the ANE >On Thu, 28 Oct 1993, Seth L Sanders wrote: > > I >do hope it will not get sidetracked onto the question of trans-Atlantic >contacts in ancient antiquity. Such contacts may very wlll have taken >place, I just haven't seen any good, strong, credible evidence of such >contacts. My feeling is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary >proofs. Is that unreasonable? Since I posted the question first, I would like to second Seth's remark and state my question once more (for which by the way I got no good answer): How does Physical anthropology fair among archeologists, anthropologists, ANE-scholars in general? The department of Anthropology at the university of Oslo (at least those I know) are all far from Physical anthroplogy (leaning strongly to social anthropology). THus when I put m,y question to them, they sor of support my intuition, i.e. I am very sceptical. What do you say (about physical anthropology and not whether the Phoenicains got to America!!) Elie Wardini Department for East-European and Oriental Studies Semitic languages Post Box 1030 Blindern 0315 Oslo Norway tel. off.: +47 - 22 85 71 21 home: +47 - 22 19 03 49 Fax: +47 - 22 85 41 40 e-mail: e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no ------------------------------ From: vdplas@cc.ruu.nl Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 12:40:19 +0100 Subject: ANE studies and WW II I find it surprising to see that there is hardly any European participation in the discussion about Nazism and ANE studies. Like Terry Wilfong I am rather surprised about the reluctance of some towards this discussion. I strongly wonder whether scholars outside Europe sufficiently assess what strong impact the events of WW II and Nazism have had on European society, and still have today. The events of WW II are still much alive here. It is considered to be a major topic in history lessons at our highschools. 50 years afterwards there are still many people around who personally experienced the Nazi occupation and persecutions. Many families suffered the loss of their loved ones, ordinary citizens mostly. Many of the emotions related to all this are still strongly felt in today's society, also leaving their impressions on the younger generations. To me (I am 28 years of age and my background is in Egyptology) it is inconceivable to study the ancient Near East without having an eye for the more recent historical events that touched the lives of our ancestors and the scholars before us. The discussion about the history of ANE studies and the influences that historical events have had on the field and their scholars is much relevant indeed. How one can study the ancient Near East without any further historical interests is beyond me... Hans van den Berg - ------------------------------------------------ Centre for Computer-aided Egyptological Research Faculty of Theology Utrecht University P.O.Box 80105 3508 TC Utrecht The Netherlands Tel. +31-(0)30-531982 Fax: +31-(0)30-540413 e-mail: vdplas@cc.ruu.nl - ------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ From: "LEVON AVDOYAN" Date: 29 Oct 1993 08:21:08 GMT Subject: RE; ARMENIAN GENOCIDE AND SCHO I do not feel that it would be appropriate to debate whether or not the Armenian genocide happened as that could bring the motivation of individual posters into question. The question of the influence on future historiography, however, is legitimate. I recommend the scholarly work of Vahakn K. Dadrian who has dug up documentation, translated these and described the impact on Turkish and Armenian historiography. Unlike many who enter the scholarly fray, he reads both Armenian and Turkish fluently. Perhaps the question should be broadened from Nazi, German, Turkish, Armenian, American Indian, etc. (tempting, of course, the accusation of intellectual naivete): should any scholar be permitted by his or her colleagues to contribute actively to any attempt at cultural damnatio memoriae? Levon Avdoyan These are my own views and do not reflect those of my place of employment. ------------------------------ From: umw8f@maxwell.acc.virginia.edu Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 10:09:39 EDT Subject: Phoenicians in Ancient America, etc. Re: the crack theories mentioned by Lester Ness -- has anyone noted the recent controversy in the Biblical Archaeology Review about the Bat Creek "Hebrew" inscription, allegedly found in a Native American mound in Tennessee? Any responses to it? I find the tone of the exchanges at least as interesting as the facts of the case itself, which still seem rather unclear. I seem to remember mention being made of another exchange re: the color of the Egyptians. I missed that. Could someone on the list do me the favor of e-mailing me those postings, or a synopsis of them? Thanks a lot. Constanze - -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Constanze Witt McIntire Department of Art Associate Director of Studies Fayerweather Hall The New College University of Virginia University of Virginia Charlottesville, VA 22903 Charlottesville, VA 22903 (804) 924-6123 (804) 982-4873 umw8f@maxwell.acc.virginia.edu ------------------------------ From: David Lipovitch Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 10:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Physical anthropology and the ANE Actually the author of _America B.C._ was a Harvard GEOLOGIST and not a trained anthropologist. Still it's wortha read for a laff. On Thu, 28 Oct 1993, Seth L Sanders wrote: > the mormons have been arguing the similarity between mayan and semitic > things for many years. America B.C. is a book by a Harvard anthropologist > worth checking out for a laugh that enumerates just how many hittites, > perezites, jebusites, hivites and others have been here, according to > various hoaxes of the 19th and 20th centuries. inherently suspicious ground! > ------------------------------ From: David Lipovitch Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 10:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Physical anthropology and the ANE I still say teh same as I did before this discussion got side-tracked. Physical anthropology has a lot to offer Near Eastern studies. It is just unfortunate that the bulk of the work done has been of the craniometry variety with a slant towards identifying ethnic groups. As I understand such work is no longer consiedered valid. It is unfortunate, however, that is about all one gets to see in our "neck of the woods." As someone who has recently taught an intro course onn Israeli archaeology I've had numerous people ask me about what work has been done on the various skeletal collections across Israel and I was forced to answer: "very little." The reason that physical anthropology seems less than useful is simply because we are getting a biased sample of its abilities in the ANE. ------------------------------ From: "Edward Castle" Date: 29 Oct 1993 09:58:49 U Subject: Nazi scholars Subject: Time:8:16 AM OFFICE MEMO Nazi scholars Date:10/29/93 The appropriateness of posting of a letter containing unproven accusations against individuals is being defended by the argument that the work of some scholars is influenced by their political beliefs. But this fails to address the real issue. The question is: does Steindorf's hearsay reflect acceptable standards of evidence? The letter is typified by statements such as the following: "It is very difficult to describe the character of this man because he has none. I have HEARD THAT IT WAS RUMORED.... I do not believe it. He was too clever to compromise himself by such activity." "I AM NOT ACCURATELY INFORMED. HOWEVER, I SUSPECT that both of them joined the Nazis." "...FORMERLY MY ASSISTANT AND LATER MY SUCCESSOR at Leipzig. I am told that he was killed in action. HE WAS A TERRIBLE NAZI." Baruch Halpern asserts that "the public naming of names of KNOWN enthusiasts is not a witch-hunt." Apparently he finds the standards of evidence in Steindorf's letter sufficient to damn the reputations of the scholars concerned. Terry Wilfong characterizes the letter as "accurate, documented information." I don't mean to be unkind, but I'd characterize it as backfence scholarship. Chuck Jones has offered to "post such things as network etiquette and ethics". Perhaps the time is now. Edward Castle ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 01:46 EDT Subject: Re: NOTH AND NAZIISM Noth's colleagues (and I am behind in this discussion) all claimed his Ueberlieferungsgeschichtliche Studien was a total slap in the face to Rosenberg's Mythos der zwanzigen Jahrhdt. I buy into that: the issue is not where you stop, but what you do in between. Just as incidental information, I have an article in Sha'arei Talmon on a modern scholar whose ideology I thought affected scholarship --b ------------------------------ From: David Lipovitch Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 10:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: ANE studies and WW II One cannot study any field in a vacuum. In order to make any kind of reasonable academic progress a field and its members must be self-critical! Just because someone's toes might get stepped on or the subject might be a little sensitive is no reason to avoid it. While I agree with the unacceptability of the _ad hominem_ argument, teh subject of any kind of political agenda and its effects on scholarship should be discussed. ------------------------------ From: cejo@midway.uchicago.edu (Charles E. Jones) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 11:13:11 CDT Subject: H G Guterbock's response Communication forwarded from Hans Gustav Guterbock: *********Begin Guterbock**************************************** I am glad to contribute my recollections of Nazis in our fields. The case of Wolfram von Soden is generally known. I know that he joined the party and I heard that he personally took part in the burning of synagogues on the so called "Kristallnacht" November 9, 1938. He was an older co-student of mine at Leipzig and I heard him say: "Ich kann diese Leute nicht riechen," meaning Martin David and Lazar Gulkowitsch. I found von Soden rather naive about real life so that I am ready to believe that he really believed in National Socialism. Wilhelm Eilers is a different case. He was also my older co-student at Leipzig. For a long time we were rather close friends, even calling one another _ibri_ ("my friend" in Akkadian). He was interested and knowledgeable in literature and music and played the flute well. He moved from Leipzig to Berlin with his mentor H. H. Schaeder, and I introduced him to my mother with whom he played music. In 1933 he appeared in brown uniform and with a Nazi pin and broke relations completely with us. Hans Heinrich Schaeder came to Leipzig as Professor of Arabic, but left for Berlin after a few years. his main interest was in Iran, and it was his influence which caused Eilers to shift his work from Assyriology to Iranian studies. I suspect that he also influenced Eilers politically. That Schaeder himself was a Nazi I learned in 1948 from my Swedish colleagues who told me that Schaeder had traveled through Sweden during the war giving propaganda speeches. Heinrich Schafer was a close friend of my father's until 1933. Supplementing the statement of Steindorff I would say that it was my impression that Schafer joined the party. Julius Jordan. His role as a Nazi agent in Iraq is well known. It is described by Seton Lloyd in his memoirs _The Interval_, Alden Press, Oxford, 1986 Helmut Theodor Bossert. I met Bossert in 1933 in the excavation of Boghazkoy, He described his own background as follows. He had studied Art History before the first World War. Since he found no employment in this field after the war he took a job with the publishing firm of Wasmuth in Berlin. He got interested in Hittite hieroglyphs and made valuable contributions at an early stage. As a result of the depression of the early 1930's he lost his job with Wasmuth. For the summer of 1933 he got a travel grant (presumably from the Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft) to study the hieroglyphic inscriptions of Boghazkoy and Yazilikaya. He made an agreement with the Director of the German Institute in Istanbul, Martin Schede, according to which he would be housed and fed by the expedition in return for photographic work. During the three months of our life in the camp at Boghazkoy he bragged how "we", i.e. the Nazis, would change everything for the better. He confidentially told me that if my brother, who was then an apprentice in a bookstore, had any difficulties in his career he would be willing to help him, thanks to his good connections. At one time during that campaign it was announced that the Prime Minister of France, Heriot, would visit Boghazkoy. Bossert insisted that the expedition should fly the Nazi flag. He even purchased red, white and black cloth for sewing it. Kurt Bittel as Director of the expedition tried to dissuade him by pointing out that Turkish law forbade the flying of foreign colors, but to no avail. We were saved when Heriot canceled his visit. Apart from Bossert we had a second guest, Professor Friedrich Wachtsmuth, (Archaeology, esp. ancient architecture) who was also a Nazi, but less provocative. At the end of the excavation Bittel persuaded Bossert and me to go on a trip to Alishar and on to Kayseri, because he wanted to reduce his staff for the final packing. On the trip we spent one night at Terzili Hamam. Here Bossert insisted on marking his room door with a Swastika. In late 1933 Bossert got a job as professor at the newly organized University of Istanbul. At one point during the following years he engaged in a real Nazi intrigue together with his friend Eckhart Unger. Unger was at that time curator of the Near East section of the Istanbul Museum. Together they went to the Nazi authorities suggesting that the Director of the German Institute, Schede, and his assistant Bittel, who were not National Socialists should be replaced by the good party members, Bossert and Unger. I heard this from Bittel at the time and found it now mentioned in his private memoirs. Thank god they were not successful. It was rumored that this action led to Bossert's exclusion from the party. After that and especially after the war Bossert tried to come close to our group of refugee Professors by claiming that he had always been a democrat and had joined the party only to camouflage his real feelings. I am sure that he was not the only old Nazi who used this excuse. Hans G. Guterbock The Oriental Institute 1155 E. 58th St. Chicago IL 60637 (312) 702-9547 *********End Guterbock**************************************** Hans Guterbock is not connected to E-mail. He can be reached at the address above. I will be happy to relay off-list replies to him. - -Chuck- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ - -Charles E. Jones-- Research Archivist - Bibliographer The Oriental Institute - Chicago ce-jones@uchicago.edu Phone (312) 702-9537 Fax (312) 702-9853 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ From: gwelker@mail.lmi.org Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 12:24:46 EST Subject: Unsubscribing UNSUB ANE Glenn Welker ------------------------------ From: tq6q@midway.uchicago.edu (Rick Schoen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 11:27:20 -0600 Subject: ANE Studies and Nazis I would like to second the sentiments of Ted Castle. I have read several posts in this thread of the finger-pointing or this-is-a-valid-subject-of-study variety, but very few with any sort evidence as to how a scholar's political ideology affected his scholarship. And in response to David Lipovitch, who writes: While I agree with the unacceptability of the _ad hominem_ argument, teh subject of any kind of political agenda and its effects on scholarship should be discussed. I totally agree that the subject of "ANY kind of political agenda and its effects on scholarship should be discussed." In future, I hope it shall. Rick Schoen The Oriental Institute Press The Oriental Institute, The University of Chicago email: tq6q@midway.uchicago.edu ------------------------------ From: "Raymond Tindel" Date: 29 Oct 1993 12:20:01 U Subject: Re: Nazi scholars Reply to: RE>Nazi scholars I heartily endorse the remarks of Edward Castle concerning the use of rumor and unsupported accusations in the discussion of scholars who may or may not have been Nazis. If questions concerning various scholars' past political activity and resultant moral taint are worthy of investigation, it should be carried out with the same respect for accuracy and evidence that we bring to any scholarly research. Otherwise, this discussion has real potential for becoming a McCarthy-like exercise in gossip and slander. My larger question, however, is this: What purpose is this discussion supposed to serve? It seems to me that there are a number of 'isms' out there (Christian fundamentalism, Pan-Africanism, Feminism, Marxism, etc.) which have a far more immediate impact on current ANE research than defunct and discredited Nazism. - -------------------------------------- Date: 10/29/93 10:09 AM To: Raymond Tindel From: Edward Castle Subject: Time:8:16 AM OFFICE MEMO Nazi scholars Date:10/29/93 The appropriateness of posting of a letter containing unproven accusations against individuals is being defended by the argument that the work of some scholars is influenced by their political beliefs. But this fails to address the real issue. The question is: does Steindorf's hearsay reflect acceptable standards of evidence? The letter is typified by statements such as the following: "It is very difficult to describe the character of this man because he has none. I have HEARD THAT IT WAS RUMORED.... I do not believe it. He was too clever to compromise himself by such activity." "I AM NOT ACCURATELY INFORMED. HOWEVER, I SUSPECT that both of them joined the Nazis." "...FORMERLY MY ASSISTANT AND LATER MY SUCCESSOR at Leipzig. I am told that he was killed in action. HE WAS A TERRIBLE NAZI." Baruch Halpern asserts that "the public naming of names of KNOWN enthusiasts is not a witch-hunt." Apparently he finds the standards of evidence in Steindorf's letter sufficient to damn the reputations of the scholars concerned. Terry Wilfong characterizes the letter as "accurate, documented information." I don't mean to be unkind, but I'd characterize it as backfence scholarship. Chuck Jones has offered to "post such things as network etiquette and ethics". Perhaps the time is now. Edward Castle - ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by memphis-orinst.uchicago.edu with SMTP;29 Oct 1993 10:09:21 U Received: from mithra-orinst.uchicago.edu by midway.uchicago.edu Fri, 29 Oct 93 10:05:49 CDT Received: by mithra-orinst.uchicago.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25291; Fri, 29 Oct 93 10:03:28 CDT Received: from midway.uchicago.edu by mithra-orinst.uchicago.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25284; Fri, 29 Oct 93 10:03:25 CDT Received: from mithra-orinst.uchicago.edu by midway.uchicago.edu Fri, 29 Oct 93 10:02:04 CDT Received: from memphis-orinst.uchicago.edu by mithra-orinst.uchicago.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25281; Fri, 29 Oct 93 10:03:23 CDT Message-Id: <9310291503.AA25281@mithra-orinst.uchicago.edu> Date: 29 Oct 1993 09:58:49 U From: "Edward Castle" Subject: Nazi scholars To: "a ne" Sender: ane-owner@mithra-orinst.uchicago.edu Precedence: bulk ------------------------------ From: Seth L Sanders Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 13:33:09 -0400 Subject: Re: >Physical anthropology a thanks for the correction. as an alum, I am prone to mindlessly slag Harvard at every opportunity. America B.C. was written seriously? dear god. ------------------------------ From: Seth L Sanders Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 13:42:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenicians in Ancient America, etc. the latest BAR is absolutely mandatory bathtub/exercycle/sofa reading for the raging debate on Bat Creek and the spectacle of McCarter throwing up his hands at the sheer nuttiness of it all. ------------------------------ From: Seth L Sanders Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 13:46:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Nazi scholars do you really think that we can't decide for ourselves if something is well-argued and based on good data? I am in favor of posting any ideas or data one thinks worth posting. ------------------------------ From: Oded Borowski Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 14:04:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Physical anthropology and the ANE Work on skeletal remains in Israel was done mostly by Patricia Smith, Joe Zias, and Baruch Arensburg. The problem of dealing with human skeletal remains in Israel is of course influenced by the stand taken by certain religious groups and organizations having political and professional repercussions. ------------------------------ From: "Richard L. Goerwitz" Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 13:19:18 CDT Subject: Re: ANE studies and WW II I'm sure that Nazism had an effect on various ANE fields, as anti- Semitism generally. There is nothing wrong with careful, documented evidence of such a connection. Just to mention, however, that someone might have been influenced by Nazism, or could possibly have been forced to sign an oath of allegiance to Hitler, has (in itself) no merit - especially when the person in question is still a member in good standing of the ANE research community. Just to offer an analogy, digging up von Soden's political connec- tions fifty years ago (without any effort at rationalizing their im- pact on his studies) is a bit like gossiping about a scholar's sexual prowess or orientation, or about his drinking habits. All of these things can have a profound affect on scholarship and world view. I don't think they're fair game here, though, unless the connection is absolutely and clearly demonstrable as relevant to our field. - -Richard goer@midway.uchicago.edu ------------------------------ End of Ancient Near East Digest V1 #24 ************************************** To subscribe to ANE-Digest, send the command: subscribe ANE-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@oi.uchicago.edu". 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