From: owner-ane To: ane-digest@oi.uchicago.edu Subject: Ancient Near East Digest V3 #73 Reply-To: Errors-To: owner-ane Precedence: bulk Ancient Near East Digest Wednesday, 13 December 1995 Volume 03 : Number 073 The Ancient World on TV (North America) The Ancient World on TV (North America) The Ancient World on TV (North America) The Ancient World on TV (North America) M. Levi's query about Egyptian clothing Itinerary for student tour of Israel/Jordan Teaching with Artifacts Sea People Semitic? And Minoan weights and measures. Reply to H Long canopic query Job: CUNY: Ancient History terracotta figurines e-mail request Re: Sea People Semitic? And Minoan weights and measures. Re: Sea People Semitic? And Minoan weights and measures. JADIS Re: Teaching with Artifacts Genesis 14. 4 ancient language standards Re: Sea People Semitic? And Minoan weights and measures. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Meadows Date: 11 Dec 1995 19:07:18 GMT Subject: The Ancient World on TV (North America) The Ancient World on TV (North America) Week of December 4 - 10 Compiled from Various Sources (all Times Eastern) This programme listing now appears on Classics, ANE, Latin-l Ancien-l, and AIA-l (with the usual apologies for cross posting) It is also available at: http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~classics/awotv.htm (check out McMaster's home page while you're there!) *Channel Guide* A&E The Arts and Entertainment Channel (cable) BRAVO Bravo! A Newstyle Arts Channel (Canadian cable) FAM The Family Channel (pay-extra cable) PBSS Public Broadcasting System (U.S. National Schedule) TLC The Learning Channel (cable) Monday, December 4 7.00 p.m. FIVE HUNDRED NATIONS [2.00 a.m.] The Ancestors TLC Kevin Costner narrates this series dealing with the early cultures of North America. This episode looks at three early cultures centred at Pueblo Bonito, Mesa Verde, and Cahokia and uses computer simulations to recreate what these `cities' looked like 8.00 p.m. ANCIENT WORLD [11.00 p.m.] The Iceman's World TLC A good, but now out of date look at the discovery of Utzi 9.00 p.m. ANCIENT WORLD [12.00 p.m. The Frozen Tombs of Siberia TLC The excavation of a Scythian `princess' and a look at the culture of the Scythians Tuesday, December 5 7.00 p.m. FIVE HUNDRED NATIONS [2.00 a.m.] Mexico TLC The flourishing cultures of the Toltecs and Aztecs culminating in the amazing site of Tenochtitlan. Of course, then Cortez came ... Wednesday, December 6 7.00 p.m. FIVE HUNDRED NATIONS [2.00 a.m.] Clash of Cultures TLC The effect of Spanish expeditions on the natives of the Southeastern U.S. and the Caribbean; the nasty effects include guns and disease (hmmmmm) Thursday, December 7 7.00 p.m. FIVE HUNDRED NATIONS [2.00 a.m.] Invasion of the Coast TLC More impacts of Europeans, this time, on the Inuit in the Arctic; meanwhile, in the south, the Disney version of Pocahontas is questioned and Puritan "intolerance" leads to major warfare 8.00 p.m. GREGORIAN CHANT: SONGS OF THE SPIRIT PBS A look at the sudden popularity of Gregorian Chant in the U.S. with performances by the Gregorian Chant Choir of Spain Friday, December 8 7.00 p.m. FIVE HUNDRED NATIONS [2.00 a.m.] Cauldron of War TLC Europe begins to fight over the resources of North America while Benjamin Franklin is inspired by the "democratic community of independent states of the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) nation." Then come the French and Indian Wars and all that 10.00 p.m. ANCIENT MYSTERIES [2.00 a.m.] Joseph: Master of Dreams A&E An attempt to find the historical he of the technicolor dreamcoat Saturday, December 9 5.00 p.m. HISTORY'S TURNING POINTS TLC The Battle of Salamis A nice little overview of Xerxes' debacle 5.30 p.m. ANCIENT WARRIORS TLC The Highlanders The kilted pikemen of the 14th century 6.00 p.m. ANCIENT WORLD TLC Secrets of the Moche The culture of Peru which flourished some seven centuries prior to the Inca, then mysteriously disappeared 7.00 p.m. ANCIENT MYSTERIES A&E Scarlet Women of the Bible Jezebel and Athaliah Sunday, December 10 7.00 p.m. ANCIENT MYSTERIES A&E Life and Death in Britain's Ancient Theatres Or it might have something to do with the Royal Tombs of Peru, depending on whom you believe ------------------------------ From: David Meadows Date: 11 Dec 1995 21:35:44 GMT Subject: The Ancient World on TV (North America) The Ancient World on TV (North America) Week of December 11 - 17 Compiled from Various Sources (all Times Eastern) This programme listing now appears on Classics, ANE, Latin-l Ancien-l, and AIA-l (with the usual apologies for cross posting) It is also available at: http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~classics/awotv.htm (check out McMaster's home page while you're there!) *Channel Guide* A&E The Arts and Entertainment Channel (cable) BRAVO Bravo! A Newstyle Arts Channel (Canadian cable) FAM The Family Channel (pay-extra cable) PBSS Public Broadcasting System (U.S. National Schedule) TLC The Learning Channel (cable) Monday, December 11 7.00 p.m. FIVE HUNDRED NATIONS [2.00 a.m.] Removal TLC The impact, and native reaction to the U.S. Indian Removal Act 8.00 p.m. ARCHAEOLOGY [11.00 p.m.] The Russian Amazons TLC A Russian/American joint excavation of nomadic burials suggests a high status given to women and makes the (easy/obvious/sexy) conclusion that these women were the Amazons of the Greeks 9.00 p.m. ANCIENT WORLD [12.00 p.m.] Images of Jesus TLC The various `interpretations' of Jesus' visage 10.00 p.m. ANCIENT WARRIORS [1.00 a.m.] The Zulus TLC The British find the Zulus quite a match, initially 10.30 p.m. BATTLES THAT CHANGED THE WORLD [1.30 a.m.] Viking Wars -- the Norse Terror TLC The raids and colonization activities of the Vikings, especially in Britain Tuesday, December 12 7.00 p.m. FIVE HUNDRED NATIONS [2.00 a.m.] Roads Across the Plains TLC With the arrival of you know who, the tribes of the Great Plains find their traditional lifestyles fatally threatened Wednesday, December 13 7.00 p.m. FIVE HUNDRED NATIONS [2.00 a.m.] Attack on Culture TLC More `legislative attacks' on native culture, including the disbanding of communal land and the `Oklahoma Land Rush' 9.00 p.m. SCIENCE FRONTIERS [12.00 a.m.] Christmas Star TLC Astronomers and historians debate what the Star of Bethlehem might have been Friday, December 15 10.00 p.m. ANCIENT MYSTERIES [2.00 a.m.] Mysteries of the Bible: Herod the Great A&E The story of, well, Herod Saturday, December 16 7.00 p.m. ANCIENT JOURNEYS TLC Hieroglyphic Travel The various attempts to decipher hieroglyphics, culminating, of course, in the work of M. Champollion 7.00 p.m. ANCIENT MYSTERIES A&E Mysteries of the Bible: Noah and the Flood A comparison of flood tales in various cultures including North American 8.30 p.m. WONDERS OF WEATHER [11.30 p.m.] Things That Fall from the Sky A look at all the strange and dangerous things which have fallen from the sky -- for all of you who have sneered at Julius Obsequens Sunday, December 17 [NBC might be running that Time-Life Ancient Civilizations series again at 7.00 p.m. or whenever the NFL allows] 7.00 p.m. ANCIENT MYSTERIES A&E The Hidden City of Petra Still one of my faves ... 9.00 p.m. ANCIENT JOURNEYS [12.00 a.m.] The First Christmas TLC An attempt to figure out why the gospels have different birth narratives 10.00 p.m. TLC PRESENTS [1.00 a.m.] Who Was Jesus TLC An attempt to figure out the evidence for the `historical' Jesus ------------------------------ From: David Meadows Date: 11 Dec 1995 21:35:44 GMT Subject: The Ancient World on TV (North America) The Ancient World on TV (North America) Week of December 11 - 17 Compiled from Various Sources (all Times Eastern) This programme listing now appears on Classics, ANE, Latin-l Ancien-l, and AIA-l (with the usual apologies for cross posting) It is also available at: http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~classics/awotv.htm (check out McMaster's home page while you're there!) *Channel Guide* A&E The Arts and Entertainment Channel (cable) BRAVO Bravo! A Newstyle Arts Channel (Canadian cable) FAM The Family Channel (pay-extra cable) PBSS Public Broadcasting System (U.S. National Schedule) TLC The Learning Channel (cable) Monday, December 11 7.00 p.m. FIVE HUNDRED NATIONS [2.00 a.m.] Removal TLC The impact, and native reaction to the U.S. Indian Removal Act 8.00 p.m. ARCHAEOLOGY [11.00 p.m.] The Russian Amazons TLC A Russian/American joint excavation of nomadic burials suggests a high status given to women and makes the (easy/obvious/sexy) conclusion that these women were the Amazons of the Greeks 9.00 p.m. ANCIENT WORLD [12.00 p.m.] Images of Jesus TLC The various `interpretations' of Jesus' visage 10.00 p.m. ANCIENT WARRIORS [1.00 a.m.] The Zulus TLC The British find the Zulus quite a match, initially 10.30 p.m. BATTLES THAT CHANGED THE WORLD [1.30 a.m.] Viking Wars -- the Norse Terror TLC The raids and colonization activities of the Vikings, especially in Britain Tuesday, December 12 7.00 p.m. FIVE HUNDRED NATIONS [2.00 a.m.] Roads Across the Plains TLC With the arrival of you know who, the tribes of the Great Plains find their traditional lifestyles fatally threatened Wednesday, December 13 7.00 p.m. FIVE HUNDRED NATIONS [2.00 a.m.] Attack on Culture TLC More `legislative attacks' on native culture, including the disbanding of communal land and the `Oklahoma Land Rush' 9.00 p.m. SCIENCE FRONTIERS [12.00 a.m.] Christmas Star TLC Astronomers and historians debate what the Star of Bethlehem might have been Friday, December 15 10.00 p.m. ANCIENT MYSTERIES [2.00 a.m.] Mysteries of the Bible: Herod the Great A&E The story of, well, Herod Saturday, December 16 7.00 p.m. ANCIENT JOURNEYS TLC Hieroglyphic Travel The various attempts to decipher hieroglyphics, culminating, of course, in the work of M. Champollion 7.00 p.m. ANCIENT MYSTERIES A&E Mysteries of the Bible: Noah and the Flood A comparison of flood tales in various cultures including North American 8.30 p.m. WONDERS OF WEATHER [11.30 p.m.] Things That Fall from the Sky A look at all the strange and dangerous things which have fallen from the sky -- for all of you who have sneered at Julius Obsequens Sunday, December 17 [NBC might be running that Time-Life Ancient Civilizations series again at 7.00 p.m. or whenever the NFL allows] 7.00 p.m. ANCIENT MYSTERIES A&E The Hidden City of Petra Still one of my faves ... 9.00 p.m. ANCIENT JOURNEYS [12.00 a.m.] The First Christmas TLC An attempt to figure out why the gospels have different birth narratives 10.00 p.m. TLC PRESENTS [1.00 a.m.] Who Was Jesus TLC An attempt to figure out the evidence for the `historical' Jesus ------------------------------ From: David Meadows Date: 11 Dec 1995 21:35:44 GMT Subject: The Ancient World on TV (North America) The Ancient World on TV (North America) Week of December 11 - 17 Compiled from Various Sources (all Times Eastern) This programme listing now appears on Classics, ANE, Latin-l Ancien-l, and AIA-l (with the usual apologies for cross posting) It is also available at: http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~classics/awotv.htm (check out McMaster's home page while you're there!) *Channel Guide* A&E The Arts and Entertainment Channel (cable) BRAVO Bravo! A Newstyle Arts Channel (Canadian cable) FAM The Family Channel (pay-extra cable) PBSS Public Broadcasting System (U.S. National Schedule) TLC The Learning Channel (cable) Monday, December 11 7.00 p.m. FIVE HUNDRED NATIONS [2.00 a.m.] Removal TLC The impact, and native reaction to the U.S. Indian Removal Act 8.00 p.m. ARCHAEOLOGY [11.00 p.m.] The Russian Amazons TLC A Russian/American joint excavation of nomadic burials suggests a high status given to women and makes the (easy/obvious/sexy) conclusion that these women were the Amazons of the Greeks 9.00 p.m. ANCIENT WORLD [12.00 p.m.] Images of Jesus TLC The various `interpretations' of Jesus' visage 10.00 p.m. ANCIENT WARRIORS [1.00 a.m.] The Zulus TLC The British find the Zulus quite a match, initially 10.30 p.m. BATTLES THAT CHANGED THE WORLD [1.30 a.m.] Viking Wars -- the Norse Terror TLC The raids and colonization activities of the Vikings, especially in Britain Tuesday, December 12 7.00 p.m. FIVE HUNDRED NATIONS [2.00 a.m.] Roads Across the Plains TLC With the arrival of you know who, the tribes of the Great Plains find their traditional lifestyles fatally threatened Wednesday, December 13 7.00 p.m. FIVE HUNDRED NATIONS [2.00 a.m.] Attack on Culture TLC More `legislative attacks' on native culture, including the disbanding of communal land and the `Oklahoma Land Rush' 9.00 p.m. SCIENCE FRONTIERS [12.00 a.m.] Christmas Star TLC Astronomers and historians debate what the Star of Bethlehem might have been Friday, December 15 10.00 p.m. ANCIENT MYSTERIES [2.00 a.m.] Mysteries of the Bible: Herod the Great A&E The story of, well, Herod Saturday, December 16 7.00 p.m. ANCIENT JOURNEYS TLC Hieroglyphic Travel The various attempts to decipher hieroglyphics, culminating, of course, in the work of M. Champollion 7.00 p.m. ANCIENT MYSTERIES A&E Mysteries of the Bible: Noah and the Flood A comparison of flood tales in various cultures including North American 8.30 p.m. WONDERS OF WEATHER [11.30 p.m.] Things That Fall from the Sky A look at all the strange and dangerous things which have fallen from the sky -- for all of you who have sneered at Julius Obsequens Sunday, December 17 [NBC might be running that Time-Life Ancient Civilizations series again at 7.00 p.m. or whenever the NFL allows] 7.00 p.m. ANCIENT MYSTERIES A&E The Hidden City of Petra Still one of my faves ... 9.00 p.m. ANCIENT JOURNEYS [12.00 a.m.] The First Christmas TLC An attempt to figure out why the gospels have different birth narratives 10.00 p.m. TLC PRESENTS [1.00 a.m.] Who Was Jesus TLC An attempt to figure out the evidence for the `historical' Jesus ------------------------------ From: Robyn Gillam Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:46:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: M. Levi's query about Egyptian clothing You have uncovered an embarrasing gap in our knowledge of Egyptian life. Apart from the small quantity of surviving specimens, the main stumbling block in understanding how Egyptian clothing was worn (often wrapped rather than tailored) is the ambiguous nature of representations in the visual arts. Two and three dimensional representations are not only inconsistent with each other but mix conceptual and perceptual approaches. This problem is adressed in the reading materials already posted on ANE re this issue, but you may also want ot look at Heinrich Schafer's Principles of Egyptian Art (tran. J. Bains, Oxford, 1986) which looks at how Egyptian artists transformed visual material in great detail. On a more practical level, you may want to talk to Nick Millet of the Royal Ontario Museum who grappled with this problem some years ago while trying to decide how to outfit a mannequin to go on display in the new Egyptian gallery (as I recall, he used a student as a model). His address is Dr. N. B. Millet, Curator, Egyptian Department, Royal Ontario Museum, 100 Queen' Park, Toronto, Canada M5S 2C6, ph. 416-586-5632. (I don't know if he has e-mail). Anyway, good luck. Robyn Gillam Founders College York University North York, Ont. M3J 1P3 gillam@yorku.ca ------------------------------ From: Michael Dick Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:21:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Itinerary for student tour of Israel/Jordan I am beginning to plan for a undergraduate tour of Israel/Jordan next year (December 1996-January 1997). Our Dept. has a "Biblical Studies" tour; we've done Israel, Egypt, Rome, Greece (this year). We usually take along about 15-25 students. My field is Hebrew Bible, but the tour would encompass Christian, Jewish, and Muslim sites. I have a definite list of "must-sees" (Jerusalem), Megiddo, Bethlehem, etc., but I NEED feedback from either local people or archaeologists about sites that show well. In other words, biblically Bethel is a very significant site, but I believe there is nothing there to show students. I spend a lot of time talking about the archaeology of Lachish, but is there anything on site now to show students? Also with the changed political scene, is it safe to visit Samaria, one of the truly great sites I visited in 1986? I had hoped to maybe include Petra now that the borders between Israel and Jordan are more normalized. Is this feasible? I would approach it through Eilat (where the climate in winter can be more enjoyable). I have about 15 days for the trip. Of course we use local guides; the tenor of the trip is academic rather than devotional (although the latter is not precluded). Some of the Churches in the Negeb are important, but which are worth visiting? In my experience students have trouble with seeing a mound of rubble and then a lecture on what it must have been like. Which sites have been "restored" or "maintained"? I believe Beersheba has. Michael Dick Siena College DICK@SIENA.EDU ------------------------------ From: jmatting@ashley.jbc.edu (Jerry Mattingly) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:09:49 -0500 Subject: Teaching with Artifacts On a recent trip to the British Museum, I chanced upon a small book in the English Heritage "Education on Site" series. The book is entitled A TEACHER'S GUIDE TO LEARNING FROM OBJECTS (1990), and it was written by Gail Durbin, Susan Morris, and Sue Wilkinson. Although it was written for younger students, the contents are adaptable for members of our college and university classes. This illustrated guidebook discusses the skills, knowledge, and concepts that are involved in teaching/learning with objects/artifacts, in the classroom or in the museum. Special attention is given to questions that should be asked about an object's physical features, construction, function, design, and value. A free catalog of English Heritage publications is available from Customer Services, English, 429 Oxford Street, London W1R 2HD, England. ------------------------------ From: Milo Gardner Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:25:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Sea People Semitic? And Minoan weights and measures. Cross posted from sci.archaeology: Can readers of ANE agree that this discussion is going in the right direction? Ancient Near East linguistics without math and math without linguistics often can be the sound of one hand clapping. Can the readers of ANE also agree that new interdisciplinary studies that include many hands is better than any one pair of hands? With that thought in mind, let us consider these sci.archaeology discussion points: >My original point was discussing the mathematical evidences that points >towards Semitics such as Akkadian dominating Crete, Cyprus and other islands, >and leaving easy to read base 60 mark in several areas. One of the post- >Akkadian/ Semite groups offers no understanding of hieratic fractions >(only a touch of Horus-Eye found alongside Linear A). Yet, a great >deal of (highly sophisticated) base 60 is found. How can this be? I very well understand the weakness of language based arguments; however, I am also aware of the strengths; particularly the connection between verifyable genetics and language (long term); I think that one can still use the arguments in modern day analysis and still be correct, as long as there is a predefined strategy for making exception. But as a matter of fact, in _science_ we never use a single technique to rest proof of any reconstructive hypothesis (with the possible exception of X-Ray crystallographic data, which is fairly complete, but this is a collect of hundreds of data sets). Language arguments by themselves are meaningless, artifactual arguments by themselves are meaningless, historical documents are subject to error and exaggeration. *** here, we agree, again.*** With the exception of the language and historical documents I haven't seen any real convincing arguments concerning the origins of these people. ***have you looked at the sophisticated forms of base 60 and base 10 arithmetic that was available for Sea Peoples to appply to solve their navigation problems? Historians have long professed that Middle Kingdom base 10, hieratic fractions, was not sophisticated; and this unworthly for any culture to adopt. Well, I propose that Otto Neugebauer and the history of science community take another look. Long onto http/www.teleport.com/ ~ddonahue/ and look under Egyptology page, papers. You may be surprised to find p/q used in 2,000 BC, along with a highly developed form of Babylonian algebra. **** As for the numeration arguments. The first criticism is that the complex numeration systems were probably quickly contrived (vs. languages which have developed slowly). **** Where is your evidence for that conclusion? Science also developed over a long period of time. Concerning navigation, it took hundred of years to develope methods to accurately compute latitute and longitude. **** These systems may have been easily influenced by trivial outside influences, such as a lost merchant. If one found notable similarity of other things, say.... how they construcuted boats, built houses, made pottery, smelted metals, weaved clothes, then in the entirety one could make a firm argument. In and of itself its nonsensical scientifically to argue the case. *** again, look at the aboved web site, and re-consider the Moscow, RMP, Reisner from the Middle Kingdom and and late Coptic documents like the Akhmim. Hieratic fractions fully emerged by 1850 BC and were continuously used until 800 AD, with very little improvement. That is to say, Sea Peoples would have had available either Babylonian or Egyptian math to compute much needed navigation aides. Why not look for these possibilities? Again, my question is, which number system and system of science did Sea Peoples use? Given that search, a researcher may also find numerical clues that can point towards the identity of several other ancient Near East groups, like the Hyksos. Clues are clues. Clues are not final judgments. ***** If you have corroberating toward the other aspects mentioned above the present them in a culture (site x period) by culture basis then please present. *** I have done so on the above referenced web site. *** >Ancient mathematical notational evidences do report a form of DNA type >bits of information. Yes, Sea Peoples originating from Crete may >have primarily known base 60, and secondarily base 10, as was the >case on Cyprus, continuously until 100 BC. > >From the Minoan era I have recently received base 12 evidence of a weights a measures system published by Evans, Petruso, Irini and Judith Weingarten, from Knossos. I find the evidence interesting covering units 1, 2, 3, 4, (5 or 6), 8, 12, 24. A wide range of unit sizes, from 57 to 69 grams would be required to accept the markings on the weights found at Knossos to be base 12. But even assuming that base 12 was a fact of life in Minoans transactions, that fact probably bears not relationship to the number system actually used in 1,500 BC. My proof, or counter example is given by Horus Eye, an Egyptian Old Kingdon weigths and measures system, that may have one time been the Egyptian system of numeration. Dates are fuzzy on the era when Horus-Eye was discontinued as a system of numeration; but, it it clear the date was well before 2,000 BC. After 2,000 BC hieratic fractions clearly came to dominate, as the central Egyptian and later Hellenic world's method for numeration. Horus-Eye continued to be used as the primary Egyptian weights and measures, until 800 BC, as base 12 may have been found in Knossos well after base 60, or aspects of base 10, may have come to dominate the Minoan scientific community. **** >Linguistics of any era is, at best, may be the sound of one hand clapping. Then, numeration arguments are, at best, the sound of one hand clapping in a vacuum. *** again, we agree.*** >With Akkadian being the lingua france during the time when Egypt >had difficulties with the Hittites, Semites had regional influences >well before Aramaic became the lingua franca. Mathematical evidences >also points out a regional Semite dominance trend. But you are talking about a small region of the mediterranian ignoring the vast other regions where the hamito/semitic languages dominated. *** I wish to not go beyond my area of expertise. *** There are a number of unanswered questions remaining, what happened to these sea people in phoenicae, if they weren't semitic were they completely driven out and replaced by semites or were the phoenicean a hybrid culture of semitic and non-semitic peoples? More possibly semitic/semitic I still think the principle foundation for argument of sea people should be taken in two directions. First which cultures had the technological resources at the time. I asked questions about iberian/african trade and the answer implies maritime trade. The culture mention in france post dated the period only by 300 years, and their independence from other cultures has been described. The sites in ancient aegean coast are mentioned, anatolia was mentioned, lebanese coast was mentioned, as well as the egyptians. In addition the atlantic coast of france is only a short distance from the mediterranian, and the black sea is even more accessable. In addition there are the numerous island cultures of the central mediterranean which have extensive artifacts predating the period suggesting that these people must have also had sea travel. The heriditary and linguistic arguments cannot clearly define who might have been related to whom or trans cultural interaction which might have given birth to a new culture. All in all, there are a number of choices. We can somewhat rule out those who recognized these peoples as foriegn peoples (so they weren't egyptians or hebraic). Despite what has been said, I think every established mediterranean culture had the ability to project these peoples Second direction is drive. What might have driven any of these people to abandon the parent land in search for others. There could be many, I mentioned anatolia, the Celts were beginning an expansive trend the earliest extent to the west is unclear, but probably this was too early for the period. Mentioned previously was earlier waves of Celts, this might have been a push. The ancient helladic culture may have been driven by declines in production or overpopulation, or shifts in power from the north. The exact forces acting on the region are not clear. Thus the only really strong evidence would be correlation of artifacts or language or preexisting spheres of influence. BTW, did any of the preexisting historical documents recognize these peoples as of 'strange tongued'. Some ancient text recognize non-semites as being of 'stranged tongued'. If this were mentioned then one could probably rule out semitic people in favor of others. *** your points are well taken; but, well beyond my area of expertise.*** Milo Gardner Cryptanalyst ------------------------------ From: "Aidan Dodson (London)" <100761.3075@compuserve.com> Date: 12 Dec 95 17:23:26 EST Subject: Reply to H Long canopic query To INTERNET:HLONG@GNN.COM Dear Mr Long Your canopic question was passed to me: I wrote my PhD on canopic jars and chests. The jars were NOT actually filled with palm oil, palm wine, etc; in fact, the internal organs were dessicated using salts, wrapped in linen, and then placed in the jars. In many cases, the contents of the jars were discarded before arriving in museums, and very few have been examined properly. Where anyth- thing has been done, not much has been properly identifiable, tests merely showing that human tissue was present. However, some tests in Manchester UK appear to have been able to rehydrate lung tissue and show pneumochoniosis. Let me know if you would like any more information. Yours sincerely, Dr A.M. Dodson ------------------------------ From: cejo@midway.uchicago.edu (Charles E. Jones) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 17:28:15 -0600 (CST) Subject: Job: CUNY: Ancient History CUNY Personnel Vacancy Notice No. : T-1576 Issue Date: 11/10/95 Closing Date Date: 1/12/96 Queensboro Community College Title: Instructor/Assistant Professor Department: History Responsibilities: Teach courses in Ancient History in support of the College's associate degree programs. Other competencies may include Medieval or Non-Western History. Qualifications: A.B.D. or Ph.D. in History and prior college level teaching experience preferred. Ph.D. or equivalent required for appointment to Assistant Professor title. Master's degree required for Instructor title. Salary: Instructor: $27,454-$40,267 Assistant Professor: $29,931-$40,440 Start Date: February 1, 1996 or September 1, 1996 Send Resume to: Office of Academic Affairs (A-503) Queensboro Community College The City University of New York 222-05 56th Avenue Bayside, NY 11364 An Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action/ Americans with Disabilities Act Employer ------------------------------ From: Giovanna BAROUCH - Library - 292617 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:25:29 +0200 (IST) Subject: terracotta figurines I tried to contact by e-mail Terry Eddinger to enquire about her dissertation, but the contact failed> I wished to know how can we acquire this dissertation for our library Giovanna Barouch ------------------------------ From: "Eichler, Eckhard" Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:15:35 MET-1MST Subject: e-mail request Dear ANE.members; Does anyone have the e-mail address of Jacobus van Dijk at the Rijksuniversiteit Groningen? Please reply off-list Thank you ******************************************************* Dr. Eckhard Eichler Universitaetsbibliothek Heidelberg Sondersammelgebiet Aegyptologie Postfach 10 57 49 69047 Heidelberg Tel.: 06221/54-2584 Fax : 06221/54-2623 EMail:ei@ubhd2.ub.uni-heidelberg.de Egyptology Page: http://www.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/sonder/aegypt ********************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Lester Ness Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 06:43:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Sea People Semitic? And Minoan weights and measures. Lots of people used base 60 math without adopting a semitic language -- most of the Hellenistic and Roman period astronomers, for example, and many of the Persian speaking astronomers of the Islamic period for another. Think of Ptolemy. Lester Ness lness@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: Milo Gardner Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 06:42:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Sea People Semitic? And Minoan weights and measures. Lester's point is correct. My point was touching on dominance. Base 60 and base 10 were well known, early on, in the ancient Near East. Many of these ancient cultures used both, sometimes one for numeration and one for weights and measures. That is to say, finding any number base within a weights and measures context, like Minoan base 12, may not imply anything related to that culture's system of numeration. To cover the broad brush that base 60 and base 10 painted over the ancient Near East scholars can find clues to convergence and diffusion in odd places. One region and era that convergence applies is the Egyptian Middle Kingdom and its use of p/q as the EMLR and RMP 2/nth table details. Following any sophisticated numeration system, such as hieratic fractions as it followed to the Greek world over a period of 1,500 years, offers interesting hints on trade and sharing of scientific information between cultures. That was my point. Ptolemy for sure used base 60 as Europe would accept prior to and during the development of our base 10 decimal system. Speaking of Ptolemy as a counter example to this discussion misses the central point. Ancient numeration systems have not been re-created. There is a great deal of work to do in re-creating hieratic fractions and its connections to Babylon's base 10 number theory. Milo On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, Lester Ness wrote: > Lots of people used base 60 math without adopting a semitic > language -- most of the Hellenistic and Roman period astronomers, for > example, and many of the Persian speaking astronomers of the Islamic > period for another. Think of Ptolemy. > > Lester Ness lness@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu > ------------------------------ From: Robert Ibach Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:48:54 -0600 (CST) Subject: JADIS Does anyone know if the JADIS database (Jordan Antiquities Database and Information System) is accessible via the Internet? Are there plans underway to make it accessible? The database is located at the Department of Antiquities Registration Center. A summary of the data in JADIS was published by Gaetano Palumba in 1994 Bob Ibach Dallas Theological Seminary ------------------------------ From: eugene.cruz-uribe@nau.edu (Eugene Cruz-Uribe) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:28:45 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Teaching with Artifacts J. mattingly recently posted the information: On a recent trip to the British Museum, I chanced upon a small book >in the English Heritage "Education on Site" series. > The book is entitled A TEACHER'S GUIDE TO LEARNING FROM OBJECTS >(1990), and it was written by Gail Durbin, > Susan Morris, and Sue Wilkinson. Although it was written for >younger students, the contents are adaptable for members > of our college and university classes. This illustrated guidebook >discusses the skills, knowledge, and concepts that are > involved in teaching/learning with objects/artifacts, in the >classroom or in the museum. Special attention is given to > questions that should be asked about an object's physical features, >construction, function, design, and value. > > A free catalog of English Heritage publications is available from >Customer Services, English, 429 Oxford Street, > London W1R 2HD, England. > The question of use of objects and artifacts in classrooms is one that is often addressed by faculty who teach larger sections and fear the process of handing out items for everyone in class to touch, see, etc. Dropping them and breaking them does happen. Gradual destruction from continued handling is another. We often don't worry about potsherds, but leather, fibers, ropes, cloth and the like are a problem. My wife, Kathryn Cruz-Uribe, informs me that she is working with Mayfield Publishers to publish her series of computers simulations for the teaching of archaeology with modules dealing with pottery, animal bones, stone tools and the like. I have worked on several and these address many of the issues raised above. CRUZ Eugene Cruz-Uribe Associate Dean College of Social and Behavioral Sciences Northern Arizona University Flagstaff, AZ 86001 eugene.cruz-uribe@nau.edu ------------------------------ From: HIPAPALA@ECUVM.CIS.ECU.EDU Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 15:19:42 EST Subject: Genesis 14. 4 Is there any discussion on Genesis 14. 4 where Abrarm raised a force of three hundred and eighteen to fight a colation of kings. I am particularly in- terested in the exact number of three hundred and eighteen. Why would the authors of Gensis be so modest about the numbers. Herdotus, to puff up the im- portance of his subject, the Persian Wars, inflated the numbers of participants Excuse this rather simple question. My speciality if Greek history, ------------------------------ From: "James R. Adair" Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:56:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: ancient language standards At the recent meeting of the Society of Biblical Literature in Philadelphia, a special meeting of the Biblical Lexicography Consultation was held to discuss the possibility of arriving at and implementing standards for dealing with electronic versions of biblical and related primary and secondary sources (i.e., both ancient and modern works). There seemed to be a consensus that SGML, and in particular the TEI DTD, offered solutions to many of the problems that faced the group. One of the areas in which standards are desperately needed is in identifying text that is in an ancient language. ISO 639 provides two-character identifiers for numerous modern languages, but there is an advantage in distiguishing modern from ancient languages that differ significantly from one another, even though we call them by the same name (e.g., Hebrew and Greek--Arabic should perhaps use the ISO standard). We would like to propose the following language codes as standards for ancient languages relating to biblical and ancient Near Eastern studies. I realize that there are other ancient languages that would also need codes, so this list should be viewed as a preliminary one. We have consciously avoided conflicts with ISO 639, so some abbreviations may seem strange. Also, as mentioned above, ancient languages with modern counterparts have been assigned distinct abbreviations (with the exception of Arabic, since modern literary Arabic, as I understand it, is based on Quranic Arabic). Where modern counterparts to ancient languages exist, their ISO 639 abbreviations appear in the third column. Ancient Language Proposed Abbrev. Modern Abbrev. Hebrew hb iw Greek gk el Syriac sy Aramaic ac Arabic ar ar Armenian an hy Georgian gr Nubian nu Coptic cp Ethiopic (Ge'ez) ge Egyptian eg Akkadian ak Sumerian se These abbreviations would appear as values of the lang attribute (e.g., ), and they would also be the final two characters of entities representing letters and symbols in those languages (e.g., &alfahb;). I realize that entities already exist for Hebrew and Greek and are defined in ISO 8859-7 and 8859-8. There might be some discussion of whether to use these entities or to define our own. Many entities will have to be added in any case, especially for Hebrew. In addition, the Hebrew entities often have names that might be unfamiliar to most biblical scholars (e.g., vethhb for bet, fehhb for pe). If entities were needed to represent characters in a particular script, where a language has more than one standard script, an additional two-byte script identifier could be appended to the entity after a hyphen: &alefsy-es;&betsy-es &alefsy-sr;&betsy-sr; &alefsy-ns;&betsy-ns; This would mean: display the Syriac word )b in Estrangela, Serta, and Nestorian scripts. One could also distinguish Old Hebrew and square script, as well as different forms of Egyptian. At a later stage in the conversation, we hope to present proposed WSDs for some of these languages, and we hope that others will be interested in developing WSDs for the other languages. We look forward to your input. Jimmy Adair (jadair@scholar.cc.emory.edu) Patrick Durusau (pdurusau@unix.cc.emory.edu) Scholars Press ------------------------------ From: Andrew Gross Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:18:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Sea People Semitic? And Minoan weights and measures. On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, Lester Ness wrote: > Lots of people used base 60 math without adopting a semitic > language -- most of the Hellenistic and Roman period astronomers, for > example, and many of the Persian speaking astronomers of the Islamic > period for another. Think of Ptolemy. > > Lester Ness lness@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu Not only that, but those who did use base 60 math and spoke a Semitic language did not necessarily use base 60 notation. Robert Whiting (ZA 74 (1984) pp59ff.) analyzed some mathematical school texts from the Sargonic period and found that the mistakes they made could only have been made if the students had calculated their sums in sexagesimal notation. Unfortunately, metrology and mathematics are not my forte, but from I can gather from Whiting's demonstration, he examines the errors in calculation made on some of these tablets, and then shows how these were the very sort of erros that could easily have been made in sexagesimal notation. In other words, the students must have (1) taken their assignments which used numbers in an older, non-base 60 system of notation, (2) translated them into the base 60 notation that they could manipulate more easily, (3) made their errors on a scratch pad which has since been lost in the sands of time, (4) and then translated these numbers back into the original non-base 60 numeration system -- mistakes and all! This certainly is quite plausible considering that we Americans calculate in a base 10 system, yet use non-base 10 measuring systems. andrew gross ------------------------------ End of Ancient Near East Digest V3 #73 ************************************** Back issues are available by two means: anonymous FTP at oi.uchicago.edu in pub/ane/ OR on the World Wide Web (WWW) at ftp://oi.uchicago.edu/pub/ane/