From: owner-ane@ (ANE Digest) To: ane-digest Subject: ANE Digest V1997 #79 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ane@ Errors-To: owner-ane@ Precedence: bulk ANE Digest Thursday, March 27 1997 Volume 1997 : Number 079 Re: ane The origin of the term Gebtz Re: ane The origin of the term Gebtz Re: ane The origin of the term Gebtz Re: ane The origin of the term Gebtz Re: ane The origin of the term Gebtz ane Sea Peoples / End of Bronze Age series [none] Re: ane The origin of the term Gebtz - Aigyptos Re: ane The origin of the term Gebtz - Aigyptos ane British Museum Egyptologist's Lecture - Stanford ane Stanford Course: Egyptian East/Egyptian West ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:52:18 -0500 From: Troy Sagrillo Subject: Re: ane The origin of the term Gebtz Andrew Gross wrote: >> In Ge`ez (Classical Ethiopic), Egypt is referred to as "Gebtz". Does >> anyone know what the the origin of this term is? Gonzalo Rubio replied: >Andrew, it comes from Greek Aigyptos (in Alexandrian times, probably >pronounced somehow like /egiptos/, with stress on the first syllable). >The drop of the initial vowel has a good parallel in the Arabic word for >"coptic", qibT (with emphatic t), also from Aigyptos, as "coptic" itself. It has prob. already been pointed out (I am on the digest format) that the Greek term Aigyptos very likely has its origins in Egyptian "The Temple of Ptah", which the Egyptians in later periods applied to all of Memphis; similarly, at some point this term for Memphis came to be generalised to all of Egypt (at least by the Greeks). BTW, Don Redford mentioned to me last week that there is a Linear B version of Aigyptos as well (a-i-ku-pu-ti-jo) (sorry I don't have any other information or a cite). Does anyone have any idea where I might look this up, or find cites to other Egyptian words in Linear B? Continuing the tread, E. Adams wrote: >What about the Egyptian name for the city of Coptos, Gebtiu? I had always >thought this was an ancient name. Does it too, only date to the >Greek period? [snip] >Can someone please enlighten me as to what was the traditional name of >Gebtiu/Coptos, if this is supposed to also derive from the Greek? If it >does not, and there is allegedly no connection, then what might be the >etymology? Ancient (with examples going back as far as Pepi I) is indeed the origin of Greek Coptos. The Coptic form of the name, Kebtu, was the source of Arabic qifT. By the way, while is the traditional transliteration, Ziebelius-Chen has suggested that is perhaps a better reading (based on the Coptic and that fact the [tiw] bird sometimes has the value of ). Cheers all, Troy Sagrillo - -- Troy Sagrillo Department of Near & Middle Eastern Civilizations University of Toronto Toronto, Ontario Canada http://www.chass.utoronto.ca:8080/~sagrillo/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:56:14 -0500 From: Gonzalo Rubio Subject: Re: ane The origin of the term Gebtz On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Troy Sagrillo wrote: > BTW, Don Redford mentioned to me last week that there is a Linear B version > of Aigyptos as well (a-i-ku-pu-ti-jo) (sorry I don't have any other > information or a cite). Does anyone have any idea where I might look this > up, or find cites to other Egyptian words in Linear B? Actually, the Linear B spelling is ai-ku-pi-ti-jo, "Egyptian", obviously, as you pointed out, from Eg. H.t-k3-ptH. Curiously enough, in Linear B one can fin also mi-sa-ra-jo, Egyptian", probably from Ugaritic mSry (I don't need to mention the contatcts between Aegean Greece and Ugarit). On Egyptian loanwords in Greek (with mentions of II mill. Greek materials, i.e. Linear B), you may want to read, B. Hemmerdinger. "Noms communs grecs d'origine egyptienne". Glotta 46 (1968): 238-247. R. Holton Pierce. "Egyptian Loan Words in Ancient Greek", _SO_ 46 (1971): 96-107. The most complete dictionary of Linear B Greek is F. Aura Jorro's _Diccionario Micenico, I-II_ (Madrid 1985-93). There you'll find complete references for all the possible loans. - ------------------------ Gonzalo Rubio Near Eastern Studies Johns Hopkins University gonzalor@jhu.edu - ------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:04:58 -0800 (PST) From: cuibono@garnet.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: ane The origin of the term Gebtz what is the source for arabic maSr, hebrew mitsrayim? chris hoffman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:33:32 +0200 From: hrubyja@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU (Julie A. Hruby) Subject: Re: ane The origin of the term Gebtz For a fairly concise collection of Linear B references to Egypt and the Near East, with good bibliography, check out Cline's _Sailing the Wine Dark Sea: International Trade and the Late Bronze Age Aegean_, Catalogue I (1994). I believe that Lambrou-Phillipson's _Hellenorientalia_ (1990) also collects this material, including some of the less certain examples. Interestingly, both of the instances cited in previous postings refer not to Egypt itself but to individuals who may be called Egyptian. Julie Hruby Dept. of Classics University of Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:22:07 -0500 From: Gonzalo Rubio Subject: Re: ane The origin of the term Gebtz On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 cuibono@garnet.berkeley.edu wrote: > what is the source for arabic maSr, hebrew mitsrayim? In Akkadian, miSru means "border, district, etc." (AHw 659) --the verb muSSuru (D of maSa:ru) means "to fix the boundaries, to delimit" ( in Mandaic, you have mSr' "border, district", and in Aramaic mSr "wall, enclosure"). From that miSru "border" and its root one can derivate the Akkadian names of Egypt: MuSur, MuSru, MiSir, and MuSuru. One should distinguish this MuSur from the city MuSri/MuSur (modern Jebel Maqlu:b, NW of Nineveh, between Harran and the Taurus), quite famous because of its horses (I K 10:28; II K 6, etc.). Against its inhabitants, the MuSri, Tiglath-Pileser I campaigned. Cyrus Gordon says that this city may have gotten its name because it was founded by an Egyptian slave (in his _UT_ 437a). Anyways, I never met that slave. You can find a city called MuSru (the same?) in the Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III, and in the list of tributes of Tiglath-Pileser (probably the same). You might find some updated information in S. Timm's book, _Moab zwischen den Maechten_ (AAT 17. Wiesbaden 1989). In Arabic you have al-miSr "the city" (pl. amSa:r), i.e. "Cairo" and also "Egypt" --in this naming pars pars pro toto, one should remember that H.t-k3-ptH seems to have been the name of Memphis during the New Kingdom (but I'm *not* and Egyptologist). You have excellent parallels in the case of Urbs = Rome, and perhaps Istambul --perhaps from "eis ten polin", /is tin polin/, "to the city", cried by its inhabitants when the Muslims arrived (yes, it's a legend, but a nice legend, and since Arabic has no /p/, it may make some sense, who knows). - ------------------------ Gonzalo Rubio Near Eastern Studies Johns Hopkins University gonzalor@jhu.edu - ------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:25:56 -0600 (CST) From: drewsr@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Robert Drews) Subject: ane Sea Peoples / End of Bronze Age series Jerome Berman, at the California Museum of Ancient Art, has asked me to share with the ANE and Aegeanet lists a notice that on Monday or Tuesday evenings from April 29 through June 3 the museum will present a six-part lecture series, "Invasion of the Sea Peoples and the End of the Bronze Age." Registration fee for the series is $90.00. For registration and a detailed brochure call the museum at (818) 762:5500, or write to: California Museum of Ancient Art P.O. Box 10515, Department A Beverly Hills, CA 90213 The presentations scheduled are as follows: April 29: Robert Drews, "End of the Bronze Age: An Overview" May 6: Gary Beckman, "The Collapse of the Hittite Empire" May 12: James Wright, "Troy, the Trojan War and Homer: An Archaeological Perspective" May 19: Donald Redford, "War of the Nations: Egypt and the Sea Peoples" May 27: William Dever, "Archaeology and Israelite Origins in the Hill Country of Canaan" June 3: Tammi Schneider, "The Philistines Create a New Home" Robert Drews Department of Classical Studies Vanderbilt University Nashville, TN 37235 (615) 343-4304 drewsr@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:21:15 +0200 From: hrubyja@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU (Julie A. Hruby) Subject: [none] Sorry the reference I gave before was incomplete. I've had a couple of requests for more specifics, so I hope this is better: Cline, Eric H. _Sailing the Wine Dark Sea: International Trade and the Bronze Age Aegean_, Oxford: BAR international series, 591 (1994). Julie Hruby Dept. of Classics University of Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 02:04:13 -0200 (GMT) From: ioniccentre@hol.gr (Isidoros) Subject: Re: ane The origin of the term Gebtz - Aigyptos >On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Troy Sagrillo wrote: > >> BTW, Don Redford mentioned to me last week that there is a Linear B version >> of Aigyptos as well (a-i-ku-pu-ti-jo) [...] > >Actually, the Linear B spelling is ai-ku-pi-ti-jo, "Egyptian", obviously, >as you pointed out, from Eg. H.t-k3-ptH. [...] >Gonzalo Rubio Sorry, but not so "obvious" - not to me. Will you - either/both - kindly elucidate? Isidoros The Ionic Centre ioniccentre@hol.gr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:50:09 -0500 From: Gonzalo Rubio Subject: Re: ane The origin of the term Gebtz - Aigyptos On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Isidoros wrote: > >Actually, the Linear B spelling is ai-ku-pi-ti-jo, "Egyptian", obviously, > >as you pointed out, from Eg. H.t-k3-ptH. [...] > >Gonzalo Rubio > > > Sorry, but not so "obvious" - not to me. Most Greek and Oriental scholars I know (at least, all the scholars who have dealt with the etymology of the name "Egypt") agree completely about this. Just check the bibliography and so on in the two articles I already mentioned (especially Hemmerdinger's in _Glotta_ 46 [1968]), also in Astour's _Hellenosemitica_ you'll find plenty of bibliographical references. Moreover, for the etymology of the Linear B word, check F. Aura Jorro's _Diccionario Micenico_ (who follows the already mentioned studies, as everybody does). - ------------------------ Gonzalo Rubio Near Eastern Studies Johns Hopkins University gonzalor@jhu.edu - ------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 23:31:21 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Meyer Subject: ane British Museum Egyptologist's Lecture - Stanford Stanford University presents A Lecture by Richard Parkinson Of the British Museum Title: Vulgarity, Sex and Censorship: Low and High Traditions in Ancient Egyptian Tales Date: Monday, March 31 Time: 4:15 p.m. Place: Rm. 113, Bldg. 260, Stanford University (Language Corner; southwest corner of the outer quadrangle, across from the Education School and the Bell Tower.) Cost: Free. All interested parties are welcome. Dr. Parkinson has done an edition of _The Eloquent Peasant_ and is the author of _Voices from Ancient Egypt: An Anthology of Middle Kingdom Writings_. He is an expert in Middle Kingdom literature and epigraphy, and is presenting a paper on The Eloquent Peasant at a conference this week at UCLA. For further information please telephone Dr. Thomas Hare, Chairman, Department of Asian Languages, Stanford University, at (415) 725-8228, or send e-mail to thare@leland.stanford.edu . - ------------------- Glenn Meyer Phone: (415) 875-3414 Toshiba America MRI FAX: (415) 875-2915 Building D E-mail: glennm@tamri.com 280 Utah Avenue South San Francisco, Ca. 94080 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:16:03 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Meyer Subject: ane Stanford Course: Egyptian East/Egyptian West Course Description: The culture of ancient Egypt has captivated the imagination of generations of us since Champollion's decipherment of the hieroglyphs in the early nineteenth century, but for many, Egyptian civilization remains exotic and bizarre -- more an example of what the West isn't than any sort of progenitor for Western civilization itself. Such a view should not go unchallenged. In this course, therefore, we take the view that the foundation of "our" civilization can be traced to the Nile Valley, some five thousand years ago. We will study various aspects of Pharaonic civilization in conjunction with an examination and critique of the ways in which the modern world has rediscovered ancient Egypt. The class will be introduced to Egyptian artistic conventions and hieroglyphic writing and learn, as well, to read some basic monumental formulae. Using what we have learned about these representational systems, we will proceed to investigate what they tell us about Egyptian views of self, society, gender, power and the world, here and beyond. Instructor: Dr. Thomas Hare Associate Professor, Japanese and Comparative Literature Chair, Department of Asian Languages Course Arrangements: Mondays, 7 p.m. - 9 p.m. March 31 - June 2, 1997 2 Units, $270 For further information, or to register, please call Stanford's Continuing Studies Program at (415) 725-4248, send a fax to (415) 725-2650, or access the CSP web pages at http://www-leland.stanford.edu/dept/csss/contstudies . XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Glenn Meyer ANE/Egyptology Enthusiast Card-Carrying Member of the ACLU Phone: 415-875-3414 Computer Graphics Software Engineer E-Mail: glennm@wco.com XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ------------------------------ End of ANE Digest V1997 #79 *************************** Back issues are available on the Oriental Institute World-Wide Web (WWW) site at: http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/ANE/OI_ANE.html