From: owner-ane@ (ANE Digest) To: ane-digest Subject: ANE Digest V1998 #54 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ane@ Errors-To: owner-ane@ Precedence: bulk ANE Digest Tuesday, February 24 1998 Volume 1998 : Number 054 Re: ane:Persia and Purim & "Lachrymose" ane Re: Persian names for Esther & Mordecai Re: ane:Persia and Purim ane Pharisees and Persians ane Dr. Harold J. Plenderleith ane Re: Aramaic Re: ane:Persia and Purim & "Lachrymose" RE: ane Pharisees and Persians Re: ane Pharisees and Persians Re: ane:Persia and Purim Re: ane Re: Aramaic ane Pharisees and Persians ane Librarians associations? ane OK, just Talmudic Aramaic Re: ane Pharisees and Persians ane New Egyptology list Re: ane Pharisees and Persians Re: ane Pharisees and Persians Re: ane OK, just Talmudic Aramaic ane "Hebrew" in Greco-Roman times Re: ane Pharisees and Persians Re: ane Pharisees and Persians ane Looking for Ward & Deaver, Scarab Seals III ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 05:14:36 EST From: SheMichael@aol.com Subject: Re: ane:Persia and Purim & "Lachrymose" I looked at that letter, below, and feel that this is a topic which has been discussed often in my synagogue (which is unaffiliated but "Conservative- Orthodox" leaning.) The objection to a lachrymose history of Jewish suffering is actually a Jewish concern. Many people in my synagogue feel strongly that Jews should not portray our history as being one of unrelieved victimization, but of one which has had golden ages and suffered attrocities, as have all other groups of people with an history. Ours is a bitter history, but not solely a bitter history. The word "pogrom" probably uniquely refers to a reign of terror against Jews, but 500,000 Rwandans died a few years ago in exactly the same way. When I was four years old I knew about the Nazi death camps, because my grandmother's vegetable man told her. Apparently Mrs. Roosevelt did not have such a vegetable man, so Washington didn't know what we knew in the Bronx. I have lived with this knowlege all my life, and I believe it has shaped my every day. I also know that five million Bengali civilians died of starvation and related illnesses that same year, in a non-combatant country, because the British diverted Bengal's grain production to the war effort and Bengali business people hoarded grain for profit. Those deaths were not noble. Moreover, many Jews who are pouring money into Holocaust Museums would not have recognized that the holocaust was in progress had they lived at that time. When I hear "Never Again", it chills my blood. The phrase is blinders upon the soul; it is bluffing and self-delusion. I think that the use of the word "pogrom" was entirely appropriate in reference to an attack upon the Jews in Persia, and while I do not agree with the point, I do not think that objecting to a lachrymose view of Jewish history was inappropriate, although there was a bit of overkill. I do think this discussion is out of place, however. Sheila Shiki y Michaels In a message dated 98-02-22 21:03:52 EST, you write: the reaction: << I cannot refrain from expressing my disquiet at <....>the use of the word "pogrom" in relation to ancient jewish history as "lachrymose." >> the passage: ><....> terms such as "pogrom" (*), with all > their connotations in modern history, is sure to set the person using them > into a "lachrymose conception of Jewish history" (**). the original query: >Is there any evidence for pogroms against Jews or others in Achaemenid Persia? My evidence suggests that such would not have been the case. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 05:14:37 EST From: SheMichael@aol.com Subject: ane Re: Persian names for Esther & Mordecai Ishtar is the morning star, so the Persian "stara" may be from her name. Also, it would be almost impossible for Persians not to know the name of the chief god of a neighboring nation they conquered and occupied. There were probably looted figures of Marduk on the premises, if not an active cult practiced by Babylonians (with theophoric names) within the walls. I'm not arguing against a Persian etymology, but we need an earlier one than Persepolis. Sheila Shiki y Michaels In a message dated 98-02-22 21:21:53 EST, you write: << One possible Persian etymology for Esther is "stara" which means star. Marduku is attested in numerous texts from Persepolis. These Per- seplois Fortification texts are dated to the time of Darius, so far as I know. Best, >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:58:17 -0500 (EST) From: hurowitz@sas.upenn.edu (Victor Hurowitz) Subject: Re: ane:Persia and Purim Dear All, Since Adar starts on Thursday and Friday this discussion of Mordechai and Esther is timely. But, as was pointed out by ANdrew Gross it was discussed last year on ANE. At that time I suggested that even if Mordechai and Esther could be given Persian etymologies, the important question was how the Writer and his (Esther 10:20 cf. 10:29) audience understood the names. What is the literary and cultural significance in an exilic assimilationist community of names such as Modechai and Esther, and Haman for that matter? As for the other issue discussed here, call Jews what you want and their attitudes towards their own history what you want, but don't ignore the simple fact that what Haman planned was a total extermination of the Jews in the Persian Empire and that the Megillah indicates that not only the king agreed but that the order was rather popular with the populace. Furthermore, whether we give credence to the events recorded or not, what feelings and aprehensions would bring an author to write such a story? Although fiction, the Megillah may tell us loads about Jews and their neighbors at the time of the composition. That's history! Happy Purim- mishshenniknas Adar marbim besimhah! Victor Hurowitz Sasa Neuman wrote: > > SheMichael@aol.com wrote: > > > > This is a fascinating question. I am thinking, that while the protagonists > > (Esther & Mordechi) are actually named Is[h]tar and Marduki, still, the > > setting is Persian Susa under the Persian King. > It makes sense to me, is there a Babylonian story with a plotline > like the story of Esther that could perhaps point to a babylonian > religous fetival around purim time? That woud kind of explain a lot. > sasa neuman > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:25:47 -0600 From: EDWARD FLISS Subject: ane Pharisees and Persians Since several list members have re-opened the discussion of Jews, Persians, and history, I have a question of a (somewhat) related nature. Both the Anchor Bible Dictionary and the OED derive the word "pharisee" from the Hebrew "PRS" (translated as separate). Several (non-scholarly?) authors on Zoroastrianism (especially Mark Willey) assert that pharisee shares its roots with Parsi and Fars and represents a Persian "party" among post-exilic Jews, specifically committed to restructuring the Hebrew religion along Zoroastrian/Persian lines. Does this idea have any serious scholarly merit or support? Can this be discussed without nastiness or rancor? Peace! Ed Fliss fliss@mobap.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:06:14 -0800 From: Alfred Mansoor Subject: ane Dr. Harold J. Plenderleith I have corresponded on and off with Dr. Harold J. Plenderleith, former Keeper of the British Museum and Director of UNESCO in Rome until March 25,1995. My last letter to him, dated June 15, 1995 went unanswered. He was 97 at the time and lived in Dundee, Scotland. Does anyone have any news about him ? Thank you. Alfred Mansoor, Secretary Mansoor Amarna Corporation http://www.amarna.com For believers no amount of proof is necessary. For nonbelievers no amount of proof is sufficient. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:19:16 EST From: Esagil@aol.com Subject: ane Re: Aramaic I was wondering if anyone could recommend a good Aramaic grammar or grammars, suitable for one who intends to begin with the Biblical and Talmudic material. Is there a general treatment, or does one need speical ones for all the varieties? The books I'm after would be suitable for someone who already had a complete mastery of Biblical Hebrew. I had a look at the grammatical abrege in the Steinsaltz Talmud reference guide, and this was full of purely typographical errors -- impossible verb forms, really apalling. Another readily available book is Y. Frank's "Grammar for Gemara," which seems serviceable, but reluctant to generate the "idealised" forms necessary to make a full set of paradigms. That's all I could turn up at the local bookshop. Any suggestions will be warmly appreciated. Jacob Rabinowitz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:29:26 +0200 From: Naccache Subject: Re: ane:Persia and Purim & "Lachrymose" Dear Jacob Rabinowitz, What a lesson you give us all. COURTEOUS: Expressing only civilized, restrained disquiet "at a vicious and inflammatory letter"! How I wish I could emulate you. PERSPICACIOUS: As a would-be historian, I did indeed feel "scorn and condescension" towards historians who would use (_ANY_ underlined, bold and italic) ethnic or racial labels as if these were god-given, a-historical, a-social and objective categories (as a citizen, I even felt the deepest revulsion towards propagandists who harp on such chords). I will try to mend my ways. NOBLE: How else to characterize your 'tip of the hat' towards Islam, pointing out that "nothing worthy the name "pogrom" occurred in the Islamic world -- prior to the twentieth century," before dispatching me, one of Islam's modern (or is it modern Islam's) champions? Considering that the book I was referring to refutes such "golden age" "conception of Jewish-Arab history," I can only applaud your chivalrousness, so far removed from all rhetorical ploys. CONVINCING: You made such a strong case proving that to limit the discussion of the pogroms to their socio-historical settings would not only be a display of vicious and inflammatory heartlessness towards the suffering of the Jews, but would also be repugnant to the ideals of intellectual debate, that I am now persuaded that pogroms are truly from all eternity and forever (see further on this issue R. Silverberg, 1972, 'The Dybbuk of Mazel Tov IV'). EFFICACIOUS: I am so impressed by the righteous and courageous stand you took, you all alone against the multitudes of me, that I will immediately dismantle my scuds and will henceforth desist from all further "pre-emptive strike to deter Jews or others acquainted with their history in modern times from broaching the topic of the term's (i.e., pogrom) relevance." REASSURING: Surely you will, in the probable case that I fail to keep the above promises (and, after all, I am only a "cunning Phoenician" and/or a "treacherous Arab," and it is notoriously hard to go against one's nature), still and nevertheless find a place for me in your tolerant and democratic world view. Maybe someday you will find it in your heart to excuse me for having, in "an ecstasy of hypocritic blandness," thought that I might be allowed to borrow Salo W. Baron's expression "lachrymose conception of Jewish history" ... Yours humbly, :-))) (Ah! the triple-chin! the clear stigma of debauchery) Albert Naccache Lebanese University Anaccash@dm.net.lb >Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:55:12 EST >From: Esagil@aol.com >Subject: Re: ane:Persia and Purim & "Lachrymose" > >Before diving into the matter of Purim, I cannot refrain from expressing my >disquiet at a vicious and inflammatory letter from a gentleman in Lebanon -- >which characterised the use of the word "pogrom" in relation to ancient jewish >history as "lachrymose." The scorn, condescension, and heartlessness of this >sally are repugnant to the ideals of intellectual debate, which that same >author -- in an ecstasy of hypocritic blandness invoked -- in what I take to >be a pre-emptive strike to deter Jews or others acquainted with their history >in modern times from broaching the topic of the term's relevance. > >I shall not address the topic of contemporary politics, of which our esteemed >correspondent from Lebanon has given us rather a pungent sample. I will >however observe that Bernard Lewis' exemplary book "Semites and Antisemites" >demonstrates that nothing worthy the name "pogrom" occurred in the Islamic >world -- prior to the twentieth century, attributing this lack to this want of >an anti-semitic *mythology* in the Qur'an. Here I shall stop, drawing the >curtain of charity over modern history. > snip > > Jacob Rabinowitz > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:53:14 -0600 From: EDWARD FLISS Subject: RE: ane Pharisees and Persians > -----Original Message----- > From: EDWARD FLISS > Sent: Monday, February 23, 1998 12:50 PM > To: 'Lisbeth Fried' > Subject: RE: ane Pharisees and Persians > > Two (related) web sites where I have encountered this idea are > http//www.clinton.net/~mewilley/index.html and > http//www.clinton.net/~mewilley/zorobig.htm. > > Thanks for your interest, > Ed > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lisbeth Fried [SMTP:lizfried@umich.edu] > Sent: Monday, February 23, 1998 11:14 AM > To: EDWARD FLISS > Subject: Re: ane Pharisees and Persians > > I think this is a fascinating idea. Can you give me the specific > references, please. > Thanks > Liz > > Lisbeth S. Fried > Dept. of Hebrew and Judaic Studies > New York University > lizfried@umich.edu > lqf9256@is3.nyu.edu > > On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, EDWARD FLISS wrote: > > > Since several list members have re-opened the discussion of > Jews, > > Persians, and history, I have a question of a (somewhat) > related nature. > > Both the Anchor Bible Dictionary and the OED derive the word > "pharisee" > > from the Hebrew "PRS" (translated as separate). Several > > (non-scholarly?) authors on Zoroastrianism (especially Mark > Willey) > > assert that pharisee shares its roots with Parsi and Fars and > represents > > a Persian "party" among post-exilic Jews, specifically > committed to > > restructuring the Hebrew religion along Zoroastrian/Persian > lines. > > > > Does this idea have any serious scholarly merit or support? > > > > Can this be discussed without nastiness or rancor? > > > > Peace! > > Ed Fliss > > fliss@mobap.edu > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:42:26 -0500 From: Jim West Subject: Re: ane Pharisees and Persians At 10:25 AM 2/23/98 -0600, you wrote: >Since several list members have re-opened the discussion of Jews, >Persians, and history, I have a question of a (somewhat) related nature. >Both the Anchor Bible Dictionary and the OED derive the word "pharisee" >from the Hebrew "PRS" (translated as separate). Several >(non-scholarly?) authors on Zoroastrianism (especially Mark Willey) >assert that pharisee shares its roots with Parsi and Fars and represents >a Persian "party" among post-exilic Jews, specifically committed to >restructuring the Hebrew religion along Zoroastrian/Persian lines. > >Does this idea have any serious scholarly merit or support? > >Can this be discussed without nastiness or rancor? > >Peace! >Ed Fliss >fliss@mobap.edu > I think D.S. Russell's "Apocalyptic" (sorry, its been years and the full title is forgotten by me) addresses many of the suspected connections between persian thought and "early Judaism's" exchatological viewpoints. And yes, surely this can be discussed without rancor. Jim jwest@highland.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:07:57 +0300 (MSK) From: Basil Lourie Subject: Re: ane:Persia and Purim Liz, I readdressed your question to Prof. M. Dandamaev who knows anything and anyone occuring in the Achaemenid documents. He states categorically that anything like "pogrom" was absolutely impossible before the Seleucide epoch. Concerning the Purim: While without reading Dumezil I know that the most popular hypothesis actually is that of the Persian origin. Cf., especially, several articles reprinted in: _Studies in the Book of Esther_ Selected... by Carey A. Moore. N.Y.: Ktav, 1982 (The Library of Biblical Studies). Involved myself into an eortological study of Esth, I think that many approaches already formulated have a common error of ignoring all the (very rich) eortological data throughout Esth (taking into account only the Purim story in isolation) -- not to say that dealing with Esth we have to overcome a specific difficulty caused by the plurality of the readactions. Cf.: M.V. Fox. _The Redaction of the Books of Esther. On Reading Composite Texts_ Atlanta: Scholars Press, 1991 (SBL MS, 40), where author's view on the origins of the Purim is rather agnostic. My actual opinion on the origin of 14 Adar date, based on the analysis of all the relevant features of Esth, is that this is one of the main dates of the seven-pentecontad, 364-days calendar: indeed, in the Temple Scroll the 49th Sabbath falls on the 14 Adar which is the last and, at least, as well important, as the first, Pentecost (Shabbuoth) date. Esth shares other features of the 7-pentecostad calendars. On the other hand, all the calendaric schemes of such a kind include a major feast at the end of the 7th pentecontad period. Regards. Basil Lourie St.Petersburg Society for Byzantine and Slavic Studies byzros@infopro.spb.su RUSSIA 194356 St.Petersburg pr.Engelsa 135-132 B.Lourie Fax 7(812) 559 7777 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:12:39 -0500 From: "Peter T. Daniels" Subject: Re: ane Re: Aramaic Esagil@aol.com wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone could recommend a good Aramaic grammar or grammars, > suitable for one who intends to begin with the Biblical and Talmudic material. > Is there a general treatment, or does one need speical ones for all the > varieties? > > The books I'm after would be suitable for someone who already had a complete > mastery of Biblical Hebrew. > Biblical Aramaic and the various Aramaic languages used in the two Talmuds and the other Rabbinic literatures are quite different things. (Stephen Kaufman's chapter in Hetzron's new *Semitic Languages* is an excellent survey.) For Biblical Aramaic, the standard work for decades now has been Franz Rosenthal's *Grammar of Biblical Aramaic* (Harrassowitz, 1961). (When I got it in 1973 or so, it cost $4.75. The last time I saw a copy in a bookstore it was around $50.) There are still no modern grammars of the Rabbinic Aramaic languages, that I have heard of. - -- Peter T. Daniels grammatim@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:06:07 -0700 From: John Tvedtnes Subject: ane Pharisees and Persians Edward Fliss wrote: > >Since several list members have re-opened the discussion of Jews, >Persians, and history, I have a question of a (somewhat) related nature. >Both the Anchor Bible Dictionary and the OED derive the word "pharisee" >from the Hebrew "PRS" (translated as separate). Several >(non-scholarly?) authors on Zoroastrianism (especially Mark Willey) >assert that pharisee shares its roots with Parsi and Fars and represents >a Persian "party" among post-exilic Jews, specifically committed to >restructuring the Hebrew religion along Zoroastrian/Persian lines. > >Does this idea have any serious scholarly merit or support? > >Can this be discussed without nastiness or rancor? Since the term "Pharisee" is first mentioned in connection with the Hellenistic period, a Persian origin seems unlikely. Moreover, the word rendered "Pharisee" is, in the Mishnah, written with SHIN, while the name of Persia is written in the Bible with SAMEKH, suggesting that they are not related. A derivation from the root PEH-RESH-SHIN, with the meaning "separate," makes perfectly good sense when one considers the Mishnaic requirements for the Pharisees to dissociate themselves from the AM HA-ARETS who did not observe the same laws, particularly in regard to tithed/untithed foods. John A. Tvedtnes Brigham Young University ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:18:40 -0600 From: "Charles E. Jones" Subject: ane Librarians associations? I think I know the answer to the following question ("no"), but on the off chance that I'm wrong (and I'll be pleased to be demonstrated so) it seems worthwhile to ask: Are there (or have there ever been) organizations of librarians responsible for collections dealing with the ancient world (Classics, Mediterraneran World, Ancient Near East, etc.) either independent or under the auspices of larger professional organizations (APA/AIA, AOS, for example)? There are some organizations touching on aspects of these fields such as MELA (Middle East Librarian Association), AJL (Association of Jewish Libraries) and IAOL (International Assicuation of Orientalist Librarians), but seem to be none centrally focused around what must surely be a fairly large group of academic librarians. Prove me wrong? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:31:49 EST From: Esagil@aol.com Subject: ane OK, just Talmudic Aramaic Peter Daniels made some very helpful suggestions about Biblical Aramaic, and its relation to the other varieties. (For which I thank him). He concludes however with the sad declaration: " There are still no modern grammars of the Rabbinic Aramaic languages, that I have heard of." Can't say this comes as a great surprise, but OK, I have to admit that the parsing I can get out of BDB is probably as much as I'll require for Biblical Aramaic -- it doesn't make sense for me to really try and master the language for the real but limited interest I have in the chapters in Ezra and Daniel. (I will try and buy the Rosenthal book though, since such things have their own beauty.) But the Babylonian Talmud is my extended goal -- so -- can Prof. Daniels, or anyone else out there, suggest some best bets for this? Thanks, Jacob Rabinowitz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:51:27 +1100 From: George Athas Subject: Re: ane Pharisees and Persians Edward, some aspects of Zoroastrianism may have parallels with Judaism (and Christianity & Islam). However, I think the Pharisees are firmly rooted in Palestine as a "sect" or "denomination" of the Hellenistic era. Also, the words for Persia and Pharisee in Hebrew are not spelled with the same root letters, so etymologically, they are not derived from the same source. Pharisee has traditionally meant "Separated One", and this has generally been taken as a reference to their separateness from those who do not observe the Torah, usually the common people. However, since most Pharisees themselves seem to have been "commoners", I wonder if we can't see their "separateness" as relating to the priestly-Sadducaic class? This would put a spin on their name as "Independents". What say others? Regards! George Athas PhD (Cand.), University of Sydney Tutor of Hebrew, Moore Theological College Phone: 0414 839 964 ICQ#: 5866591 Email: gathas@mail.usyd.edu.au (Visit the Tel Dan Inscription Website at) (http://www-personal.usyd.edu.au/~gathas/teldan.htm) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:54:19 -0600 From: "Charles E. Jones" Subject: ane New Egyptology list Forwarded on behalf of the undersigned, to whom responses and inquiries should be directed. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Dear ANE Subscribers, I am pleased to announce that a new mailing list serving professional Egyptologists has just come into existence. It is not designed to replace the Ancient Near East List, to which I am sure all of you are happily subscribed. It is, however a nexus for conferencing specifically in the disciplines of Egyptology, Coptic Studies, Egyptian Art and Archaeology. The Egyptologists' Electronic Forum (EEF) is designed to serve professionals and interested lay persons at a more academic level of discourse than is presently available on other lists devoted specifically to ancient Egyptian culture. Job announcements, new publications, conferences, calls for papers, important news from the field, and other useful information will be passed along on the EEF (as, of course, they will continue to be on the ANE), in addition to conferencing on ancient Egyptian culture. The EEF will be very strictly moderated, with all submissions carefully read before distribution, meaning that unprofessional posts will not be distributed, and neither will overly basic questions, nor agenda-ridden manifestos. Subscribers are encouraged to regard the EEF's atmosphere as that of a relaxed university seminar, and to compose their messages accordingly. The list charter, and subscription information are now available at http://www.netins.net/showcase/ankh/eefmain.html. I hope that you will feel welcome to subscribe. Be well. Sincerely, Geoffrey Graham Yale University Graduate Program in Egyptology sokar@minerva.cis.yale.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:14:49 -0500 (EST) From: Lisbeth Fried Subject: Re: ane Pharisees and Persians On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, George Athas wrote: > Edward, some aspects of Zoroastrianism may have parallels with Judaism > (and Christianity & Islam). However, I think the Pharisees are firmly > rooted in Palestine as a "sect" or "denomination" of the Hellenistic > era. Also, the words for Persia and Pharisee in Hebrew are not spelled > with the same root letters, so etymologically, they are not derived from > the same source. > > Pharisee has traditionally meant "Separated One", and this has generally > been taken as a reference to their separateness from those who do not > observe the Torah, usually the common people. However, since most > Pharisees themselves seem to have been "commoners", I wonder if we can't > see their "separateness" as relating to the priestly-Sadducaic class? > This would put a spin on their name as "Independents". What say others? I have been wondering if the etymology may be from parash, to explain, i.e., that they explained the law. Might they have served the same function as the jurists did in the Roman republic and early empire? In Rome you also had a fixed law code which had to be elaborated if it was to serve daily needs. Liz > > Regards! > George Athas > PhD (Cand.), University of Sydney > Tutor of Hebrew, Moore Theological College > Phone: 0414 839 964 ICQ#: 5866591 > Email: gathas@mail.usyd.edu.au > > (Visit the Tel Dan Inscription Website at) > (http://www-personal.usyd.edu.au/~gathas/teldan.htm) > > > Lisbeth S. Fried Dept. of Hebrew and Judaic Studies New York University lizfried@umich.edu lqf9256@is3.nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:19:23 +1100 From: George Athas Subject: Re: ane Pharisees and Persians Lisbeth Fried wrote: > I have been wondering if the etymology may be from parash, to explain, > i.e., that they explained the law. Might they have served the same > function as the jurists did in the Roman republic and early empire? In > Rome you also had a fixed law code which had to be elaborated if it was to > serve daily needs. > > Liz I like it, Liz! It sounds very plausible. Afterall, they debated Torah all the time and various "schools" of interpretation arose within their ranks. We would have to view it is a self-styled name that the Pharisees gave themselves, though. Best regards! George Athas PhD (Cand.), University of Sydney Tutor of Hebrew, Moore Theological College Phone: 0414 839 964 ICQ#: 5866591 Email: gathas@mail.usyd.edu.au (Visit the Tel Dan Inscription Website at) (http://www-personal.usyd.edu.au/~gathas/teldan.htm) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:08:41 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Gross Subject: Re: ane OK, just Talmudic Aramaic On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 Esagil@aol.com wrote: > Can't say this comes as a great surprise, but OK, I have to admit that > the parsing I can get out of BDB is probably as much as I'll require for > Biblical Aramaic -- it doesn't make sense for me to really try and > master the language for the real but limited interest I have in the > chapters in Ezra and Daniel. (I will try and buy the Rosenthal book > though, since such things have their own beauty.) But the Babylonian > Talmud is my extended goal -- so -- can Prof. Daniels, or anyone else > out there, suggest some best bets for this? The closest thing I know of is J. N. Epstein's _Diqduq Aramit Bavlit_. It's more of a collection of good observations about the Aramaic of the Bavli than a comprehensive grammar, but it's quite good. However, it's impossible to find. I have a copy, and I know of at least three people that would kill me to get it... ;-) andrew gross ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:41:21 -0500 (EST) From: "VCBROWN@DELPHI.COM" Subject: ane "Hebrew" in Greco-Roman times All, Could someone suggest an article or book on uses of "Hebrew" in Greco-Roman times? I popped open the ABD, found NPL's article, and found that it's biblio included one entry from the 60's, three entries from the 70's, and 2 from the 80's. Any suggestions? Thanx, Virgil Brown vcbrown@delphi.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:07:10 -0500 From: "Lewis Reich" Subject: Re: ane Pharisees and Persians On 24 Feb 98 at 10:19, George Athas wrote: > Lisbeth Fried wrote: > > > I have been wondering if the etymology may be from parash, to explain, > > i.e., that they explained the law. Might they have served the same > > function as the jurists did in the Roman republic and early empire? In > > Rome you also had a fixed law code which had to be elaborated if it was to > > serve daily needs. > > > > Liz > > I like it, Liz! It sounds very plausible. Afterall, they debated Torah all the > time and various "schools" of interpretation arose within their ranks. We > would have to view it is a self-styled name that the Pharisees gave > themselves, though. It strikes me that a problem with Liz's suggestion is that P'rushim doesn't mean interpreters, but "separated". "Interpreters" would be "m'forshim". Lewis Reich LBR@sprynet.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:44:29 -0500 (EST) From: Lisbeth Fried Subject: Re: ane Pharisees and Persians On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Lewis Reich wrote: > On 24 Feb 98 at 10:19, George Athas wrote: > > > Lisbeth Fried wrote: > > > > > I have been wondering if the etymology may be from parash, to explain, > > > i.e., that they explained the law. Might they have served the same > > > function as the jurists did in the Roman republic and early empire? In > > > Rome you also had a fixed law code which had to be elaborated if it was to > > > serve daily needs. > > > > > > Liz > > > > I like it, Liz! It sounds very plausible. Afterall, they debated Torah all the > > time and various "schools" of interpretation arose within their ranks. We > > would have to view it is a self-styled name that the Pharisees gave > > themselves, though. > > It strikes me that a problem with Liz's suggestion is that P'rushim > doesn't mean interpreters, but "separated". "Interpreters" would be > "m'forshim". Wouldn't this be true if the root never appeared in the Qal? It appears in the Qal in Lev. 24:12. Liz > > Lewis Reich > LBR@sprynet.com > > Lisbeth S. Fried Dept. of Hebrew and Judaic Studies New York University lizfried@umich.edu lqf9256@is3.nyu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:26:23 -0800 From: "Chris Bennett" Subject: ane Looking for Ward & Deaver, Scarab Seals III I'm looking for a library holding a copy of W A Ward & W G Dever "Studies on Scarab Seals III. Scarab Typology and Archaeological Context" (San Antonio, 1994), which is willing to lend it through inter library loan. My normally reliable source at UCSD claims it hasn't been published, as does the Wilbour Library, yet I have citations to it which seem to indicate the opposite. Please reply offline. Chris Bennett ------------------------------ End of ANE Digest V1998 #54 *************************** Back issues are available on the Oriental Institute World-Wide Web (WWW) site at: http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/ANE/OI_ANE.html