From: owner-ane@ (ANE Digest) To: ane-digest Subject: ANE Digest V1998 #80 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ane@ Errors-To: owner-ane@ Precedence: bulk ANE Digest Monday, March 23 1998 Volume 1998 : Number 080 ane e-mail address ane Livy and the Tarquins ane Fiction into Fact? ane salvage vs rescue archaeology ane The Ancient World on Television (North America) ane Re: salvage vs rescue archaeology ane Palestine under Egyptian Rule Re: ane Palestine under Egyptian Rule ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:14:25 +0200 From: Naccache Subject: ane e-mail address Does anybody on the list happen to know the e-mail address of C. G. Cumberpatch, a brittish archaeologist? Please reply off-list. Thank you. Albert Naccache Lebanese University anaccash@dm.net.lb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 08:16:43 -0500 From: Christopher Robbins Subject: ane Livy and the Tarquins On Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:19, Judy Bjorkman wrote: > This may be the "wrong" list for the following request, but I'm hoping >that someone might have answers or know where I could inquire further. > > In Livy's "The History of Rome from its Foundation," in the section on >Tarquin the Proud, there is reference to an event which was understood as an >omen of Rome's future greatness: "A man's head with the features intact was >discovered by the workmen who were digging the foundations of the temple [of >Jupiter]." Can anyone direct me to any research which has been done on why >the finding of such a head, especially "with the features intact," had that >particular significance? Are there any close parallels in Roman or other >ancient literature? I'll take responses off-list. Hello Judy, Livy is not a particularly reliable source, as you well know. Hopefully one of the ANE archaeologists, or any member, may be of assistance, yet I suspect the ANE focus is rather more Easterly. You might then consider posing the question to Ancien-L, which has a more "classical" embrace. Yet my thought would tend toward raising the matter on Classics, where the issue of the credibility of Livy's own report may be addressed - and the matter itself cut short. Regards, Christopher Robbins New York City crisica@idt.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:40:03 AST From: Tom Simms Subject: ane Fiction into Fact? The follwing is not yet ancient history - An example of how fast fiction can become fact: I have in front of me a page from the The New Brunswick Reader, a weekend supplement to our local daily. This is in a story on Atlantic disasters off the coast of the Maritimes. Centre, top to bottom on p. 5 are two photos. The top one is of Leonardo DiCaprio, who played Jack Dawson in James Cameron's Titanic. The bottom one is of a tombstone in Halifax, N. S, number 227 of the many Titanic victims buried there. Engraved on the top is J. DAWSON DIED APRIL 15, 1912 227 It is the stone of James Dawson, an engine-room worker lost in the White Star Liner's sinking. At the base of the stone are ticket stubs, flowers and other momentos from recent moviegoers. Fiction becomes fact. Or... Tom Simms SAINT JOHN, N. B. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:58:39 -0500 From: Eliot Braun Subject: ane salvage vs rescue archaeology Dear colleagues, Since Bruce Williams last posting concerning rescue archaeology I've been wondering how to share some of my thoughts with you. I've been engaged in salvage and rescue work for about 2 decades and I know how Dr. Nacacche must feel. I've felt it many times over. I'd like to make a small suggestion that may slightly increase accuracy in reportage and perhaps clear up some confusion. I've learned to make a real distinction between rescue and salvage. My definition of rescue archaeology is that which actually manages to save a site or parts of a site, if not intact, then in situ. Of course all excavation is a form of destruction and there are very different degrees of damage. I would suggest that when some, or all of a site is destroyed (i.e. no longer exists in situ) then any operation that manages to save something of it would be salvage archaeology. I think it is analogous to something like rescuing a ship. To give it a topical twist, let's say that once could not rescue the Titanic but rather one could salvage it. The title of my recent monograph: Salvage and Rescue Excavations at the Late Prehistoric Site of Yiftahel in Lower Galilee, Israel reflects this approach. Much of the site was destroyed but substantial remains, some excavated still grace the spot. That, by the way, is one example of my being very stubborn and forcing a decision that, unfortunately came very belatedly, much to the detriment of the site. For my thoughts and some examples of this kind of work in Israel see: 1992 Objectivity and Salvage Excavation Policy in Mandate Palestine and the State of Israel: An Appraisal of its Effects on Understanding the Archaeological Record. Pp. 29-38 in The Limitations of Archaeological Knowledge (Eds. T. Shay and J. Clottes). Liège: Edition de Recherche Archeologique de la Universite de Liege. - -- Eliot Braun, Ph. D, Sr. Research Archaeologist Israel Antiquities Authority (Temporarily On Leave) 8154 Inverness Ridge Rd., Potomac Md. 20854 email: febraun@bellatlantic.net or email: febraun@juno.com Tel. (301) 299 0289 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:35:37 -0500 From: David Meadows Subject: ane The Ancient World on Television (North America) The Ancient World on Television (North America) March 23 - 29 Compiled from Various Sources (All times Eastern) ________________________________________________________________ Next Installment on or about March 29 *****Monday, March 23 6.00 p.m. HISTU High Points in History Face of Tutankhamen I Oft-repeated but excellent series looking at various aspects of the discovery of Tut's tomb; the first episode deals with the preliminaries to the discovery 6.00 p.m. HISTC Ancient Civilizations Egypt I missed this one the first time around ... 8.00 p.m HISTU The Cavemen The Neanderthal folk and what (might have) happened to them. *****Tuesday, March 24 6.00 p.m HISTU Face of Tutankhamen II The stuff they found and the 'curse' they suffered ... *****Wednesday, March 25 6.00 p.m. HISTU Face of Tutankhamen III Tutmania in the 1920's and 1970's 6.00 p.m. HISTC Testament ? I can't be certain that it's on, since it doesn't appear in the official schedule, but if it is on, this is when you'd expect it. 9.00 p.m. TLC Warriors! Taking Sides Whether this has anything to do with the ancient world is a toss up ... it's listed without a description. *****Thursday, March 26 6.00 p.m HISTU Face of Tutankhamen IV The deplorable conditions in the Cairo Museum which (I am told) continue to the present day ... 8.00 p.m. HISTU Hidden Glory of Petra Possibly the coolest desert site on earth ... 9.00 p.m. TLC Warriors! The Last Battle Again ... no description. 10.00 p.m. A&E The Unexplained Noah's Flood This one deals with the 'flood from the Black Sea' theory (among others) which has been kicking around various venues for the past year or so *****Friday, March 27 9.00 p.m. TLC Ancient Warriors Special I believe this might have been the pilot for the popular series of a couple years ago. *****Saturday, March 28 7.00 p.m. DISCU Sci Trek Dawn of Humankind Assorted controversies of human development: speech, art, multi-regional v. replacement theories, etc. 7.00 p.m. A&E Mysteries of the Bible The Bible's Greatest Secrets The history of "Biblical Archaeology", warts and all *****Sunday, March 29 4.00 p.m. A&E Mysteries of the Bible Scarlet Women of the Bible Jezebel and Athaliah's role in the Bible ... 5.00 p.m. A&E The Unexplained Noah's Flood Repeat of Thursday's show ... 9.00 p.m. DISCU Discovery Sunday Mysteries of the Pharaohs Using DNA analysis to find out more about the ancient Egyptians ... 10.00 p.m. DISCU Discovery Sunday Tutankhamen The story of the discovery through the eyes of Carter and Carnarvon .... ____________________________________________________________________ *** What's New at The Atrium*** Plenty! Check us out! http://web.idirect.com/~atrium *** Want to learn Latin at your own pace? Check out Latin in the Atrium ... a real course, with a real instructor, at a very modest price http://web.idirect.com/~atrium/learnlatin.html *** Looking for a Latin Arial TrueType font with macrons and breves (and various roman numerals)? Check out: http://web.idirect.com/~atrium/download.html ____________________________________________________________________ Copyright (c) 1998 David Meadows. Feel free to distribute these listings via email to your pals, students, teachers, etc., but please include this copyright notice. Please do not post these listings to your website, but rather make a link to: http://web.idirect.com/~atrium/awotv.html The email version goes out Sunday evening; the web version goes up Monday morning (as a general rule) Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:32:04 -0500 From: Christopher Robbins Subject: ane Re: salvage vs rescue archaeology On Sun, 22 Mar 1998 14:58, Eliot Braun wrote (in part): (snip) >I'd like to make a small suggestion that may slightly increase accuracy >in reportage and perhaps clear up some confusion. I've learned to make >a real distinction between rescue and salvage. My definition of rescue >archaeology is that which actually manages to save a site or parts of a >site, if not intact, then in situ. Of course all excavation is a form >of destruction and there are very different degrees of damage. I would >suggest that when some, or all of a site is destroyed (i.e. no longer >exists in situ) then any operation that manages to save something of it >would be salvage archaeology. (snip) >The title of my recent monograph: Salvage and Rescue Excavations at the >Late Prehistoric Site of Yiftahel in Lower Galilee, Israel reflects this >approach. Much of the site was destroyed but substantial remains, some >excavated still grace the spot. A seemingly useful proposal, Eliot, and one obviously based on considerable experience. Granted, as you note, the line of distinction is seldom likely to be absolute. Yet kindly allow me to clarify it in my own mind by way of the example you cited viz Yiftahel in which "Much of the site was destroyed but substantial remains, some excavated still grace the spot." Given the definitions proposed above, would I be correct in concluding that you would classify this as an example of "rescue archaeology", given that it "manage(d) to save a site or parts of a site, if not intact, then in situ"? Thanking you in advance. Christopher Robbins New York City crisica@idt.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 00:11:27 -0500 (EST) From: Graham Subject: ane Palestine under Egyptian Rule Dear ANE Subscribers, This is an inquiry on sources for archaeological evidence of the Egyptian New Kingdom occupation of Palestine. I have just been reading Donald B. Redford's very interesting book, _Egypt, Canaan, and Israel in Ancient Times_ in hopes of finding out more about the nature and purpose of Egyptian political expansion into Palestine and Syria. Redford states several times that the Egyptians had a policy of "depopulation" in the region and seems to imply that many inhabitants were deported to Egypt as slave labor. He seems to rely almost exclusively on textual sources rather than archaeological data. Moreover, I am not familiar enough with the archaeological record in the region. Can anyone corrorborate or refute such an idea on the basis of archaeological data? Are there marked changes in demography in Palestine during the Egyptian occupation of the region? What do we know about the nature of tribute and taxes which were collected from Palestine by the Egyptians of the New Kingdom? What commodities did the Egyptians seem to be most interested in extracting; was human labor a significant factor, or is there even any way of determining this information? I would be most appreciative of any bibliography, comments, or data with which any of you might be familiar. Thank you. Yours, Geoffrey Graham Graduate Program in Egyptology, Yale University sokar@minerva.cis.yale.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:14:24 -0800 From: Stephen Fryer Subject: Re: ane Palestine under Egyptian Rule Graham wrote: > I have just been reading Donald B. Redford's very interesting book, > _Egypt, Canaan, and Israel in Ancient Times_ in hopes of finding out more > about the nature and purpose of Egyptian political expansion into > Palestine and Syria. Redford states several times that the Egyptians had > a policy of "depopulation" in the region and seems to imply that many > inhabitants were deported to Egypt as slave labor. > > He seems to rely almost exclusively on textual sources rather than > archaeological data. Moreover, I am not familiar enough with the > archaeological record in the region. Can anyone corrorborate or refute > such an idea on the basis of archaeological data? Are there marked > changes in demography in Palestine during the Egyptian occupation of the > region? What do we know about the nature of tribute and taxes which were > collected from Palestine by the Egyptians of the New Kingdom? What > commodities did the Egyptians seem to be most interested in extracting; > was human labor a significant factor, or is there even any way of > determining this information? I would be most appreciative of any > bibliography, comments, or data with which any of you might be familiar. (I realize this is not an archaeological source document, but the totally different view of the situation is interesting - I wonder where the truth lise?) I was just reading _The Penguin Historical Atlas of Ancient Egypt_ by Bill Manley. This presents a completely different picture of Egypt's relations with the area, based on the idea that Egyptian policy was driven by a desire to secure the trade routes and commercial values in the area. "Written records suggest that New Kingdom Egyptian armies rarely destroyed land or fortresses; instead success is recorded in terms of the quantity of plunder captured for the temples as tribute or in terms of the number of prisoners awarded to courageous soldiers. This behaviour seems consistent with that of an urban society which understood the importance of the Palestinian city-states for the movement of trade." - -- Stephen Fryer Lund Computer Services ************************************************** The more answers I find, the more questions I have ************************************************** ------------------------------ End of ANE Digest V1998 #80 *************************** Back issues are available on the Oriental Institute World-Wide Web (WWW) site at: http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/ANE/OI_ANE.html