From: owner-ane@ (ANE Digest) To: ane-digest Subject: ANE Digest V1999 #87 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ane@ Errors-To: owner-ane@ Precedence: bulk ANE Digest Sunday, March 28 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 087 ane Non-Greek Artemis Response ane:demotic ane New list - Corpus Paulinum ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:09:30 -0600 From: "M.A. Marazzi" Subject: ane Non-Greek Artemis Response This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BE77CC.F0D558A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Listmembers, I have been away from any internet access for sometime and missed = the beginning of the Artemis discussion, but a couple of comments by Ms. = Ghembaza struck me as odd. 1) The statement "the name of Kamose . . . means precisely in Egyptian = language 'the bull was born.'" I looked up Kamose's cartouche and the = spelling of the name does not contain the bull hieroglyph (E1 from = Gardner's Sign List) but rather the ka symbol (D28). This spelling = drastically changes the translation of the name from "the bull was born" = to something along the lines of "born of the ka" or "spirit" or "soul" = probably of Amun since he was the supreme deity at Thebes. My training = in Middle Egyptian also does not use the perfective with translations of = names. If Ms. Ghembaza has found Kamose spelled with the bull = hieroglyph, I would be very interested in knowing where it is published = as I have only seen it spelled with the ka hieroglyph. 2) "mother of the bull Epaphos =3D Apophis in Egypt, revered with great = honors as Apis from the ramsessid [sic] period." This statement is = written in such a way as to equate Apophis (the cosmic snake and = Egyptian symbol of evil) with the Apis bull which was revered long = before the Ramesside Period as a symbol of strength, fertility, and the = Egyptian throne. I have always been interested in the ways that similar ideas = manifest themselves in different cultures, but I prefer that when two = items are equated they actually follow some linguistic or cultural line = of logic which can be documented. I found the clearest cartouche of Kamose on p.93 of P. Clayton's = Chronicle of the Pharaohs and reviewed my hieroglyphs with Gardiner's = Egyptian Grammar and an English translation of Graefe. As I am always interested in other points of view, where are the = "bull was born" and Epaphos =3D Apophis published? M. A. Marazzi mmarazzi@umemphis.campuscwix.net - ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BE77CC.F0D558A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Listmembers,
    I have been away = from any=20 internet access for sometime and missed the beginning of the Artemis = discussion,=20 but a couple of comments by Ms. Ghembaza struck me as odd.
1) The statement "the name of = Kamose . . .=20 means precisely in Egyptian language 'the bull was born.'"  I = looked=20 up Kamose's cartouche and the spelling of the name does not contain the = bull=20 hieroglyph (E1 from Gardner's Sign List) but rather the ka symbol = (D28). =20 This spelling drastically changes the translation of the name from = "the=20 bull was born" to something along the lines of "born of the = ka"=20 or "spirit" or "soul" probably of Amun since he was = the=20 supreme deity at Thebes.  My training in Middle Egyptian also does = not use=20 the perfective with translations of names.  If Ms. Ghembaza has = found=20 Kamose spelled with the bull hieroglyph, I would be very interested in = knowing=20 where it is published as I have only seen it spelled with the ka=20 hieroglyph.
2) "mother of the bull Epaphos = =3D Apophis in=20 Egypt, revered with great honors as Apis from the ramsessid [sic]=20 period."  This statement is written in such a way as to equate = Apophis=20 (the cosmic snake and Egyptian symbol of evil) with the Apis bull which = was=20 revered long before the Ramesside Period as a symbol of strength, = fertility, and=20 the Egyptian throne.
 
    I have=20 always been interested in the ways that similar ideas manifest = themselves in=20 different cultures, but I prefer that when two items are equated they = actually=20 follow some linguistic or cultural line of logic which can be=20 documented.
I found = the clearest=20 cartouche of Kamose on p.93 of P. Clayton's Chronicle of the Pharaohs = and=20 reviewed my hieroglyphs with Gardiner's Egyptian Grammar and an = English=20 translation of Graefe.
    As I am always = interested in=20 other points of view, where are the "bull was born" and = Epaphos =3D=20 Apophis published?
M. A. = Marazzi
mmarazzi@umemphis.campuscwix.net
 
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BE77CC.F0D558A0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 15:37:08 -0500 From: "Liz Fried" Subject: ane:demotic If one has had no training whatsoever in Egyptian of any kind but wanted to learn a little Demotic, what should one do? Is there a book that would be good for the self-study of Demotic? Thanks Liz Lisbeth S. Fried Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies New York University 51 Washington Sq. S. New York, NY 10012 lqf9256@is3.nyu.edu lizfried@umich.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:50:04 -0600 From: "Charles E. Jones" Subject: ane New list - Corpus Paulinum Forwarded on behalf of the undersigned, to whom responses and inquiries should be directed. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Groups, I am very pleased to let you know that thanks to the efforts of Jonathan Robie (the list owner B-Greek) Corpus Paulinum -- the previously announced moderated academic e-list dedicated to the scholarly discussion and evaluation of critical questions surrounding the life, influence, teaching, theology, and the writings of the Apostle Paul -- is now up and running and open for subscription and posting. Details regarding the List's focus, protocols, and methods for subscribing can now be found at http://metalab.unc.edu/corpus-paul/ the Corpus Paulinum Home Page. I hope you will join the C-P list. Yours, Jeffrey Gibson - -- Jeffrey B. Gibson 7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A Chicago, Illinois 60626 e-mail jgibson000@ameritech.net ------------------------------ End of ANE Digest V1999 #87 *************************** Back issues are available on the Oriental Institute World-Wide Web (WWW) site at: http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/ANE/OI_ANE.html