From: owner-ane@ (ANE Digest) To: ane-digest Subject: ANE Digest V1999 #251 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ane@ Errors-To: owner-ane@ Precedence: bulk ANE Digest Monday, September 6 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 251 ane Does Phoinix equal Poenus? Re: ane Canaan/ Kinanu III ane Phoinike/Canaan Re: ane Bilingual ancient inscriptions ane The Ancient World on Television (North America) ane Sumerian lexicon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:13:18 +1200 From: "Don Mills" Subject: ane Does Phoinix equal Poenus? The ongoing discussion of the origin of the name "Canaan", and the preceding (and not yet completed?) discussion of "Phoenicia", has been deeply interesting, not to mention useful to me, and my thanks to all who have contributed. Perhaps now I can turn the discussion in a slightly different direction. There has been passing reference to the Roman term "Punic". I wonder about the origin of this. The 1997 Merriam-Webster explains it as "Latin *pûnicus*, from *Poenus* inhabitant of Carthage; akin to Greek *Phoinix* Phoenician" (asterisks here indicating italics rather than unattested forms). “Akin to” does not mean “derived from”, and in fact the initial letter of Poenus should warn against hasty acceptance of simple derivation. Greek *phoinix* (the bird) passed into Latin as *phoenix*, retaining both the aspiration and the –ik– affix, and we see both again in Latin *Phoenice*, "Phoenicia"; but neither is present in Latin *Poenus*. Is it possible that there may be an alternative, unknown, source for *Poenus*, neither Latin nor Greek? And what explanation is there of the alternation of vowel sounds between *poen-us* and *pûn-icus*? Don Mills Wellington New Zealand ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 07:38:06 -0400 From: "Peter T. Daniels" Subject: Re: ane Canaan/ Kinanu III nyokabi@kingcon.com wrote: > > On Friday Sept 3 Peter Daniels stated: > > >"Canaan" is a geographic term for a small > >portion of the Mediterranean Levant. > > > > On what evidence do you base your statement that this is only a > geographic term. To whom was this a term "for a small portion > of the Mediterranean Levant"? To the Israelites the term had > a much more extended meaning, from the borders of the Negev > up to Tyre and Sidon, then Arvad and probably? to Ugarit > [which is never mentioned in OT, is it?]. According to Weippert > in RLA Kanaan was in the Amarna letters an Egyptian province > which stretched from the border of Egypt to the northern > provinces of Amurru and Upe [Damascus area and the Biqa']. > He also points out that in EA 162, Amurru is included in > Kanaan , and that in EA 151 the name Kanaan also includes > Kilikia (Danuna), Ugarit, Kadesh on Orontes, Amurru, and Upe. > This is hardly a "small portion" of the Mediterranean Levant! "The size of Connecticut" is a popular reference these days, and apt here, and Connecticut is a pretty small state. > And it is quite a coincidence with the Genesis 10 genealogy > of the sons/tribes of Canaan as including Heth (Kilikia, > cf. the tradition preserved in Bar Hebraeus that the Canaanites > took possession of Southern Anatolia) and Hamath (Kadesh), > and the Amorites. > > To the Phoenicians and the Israelites the term was ethnic, I was talking about English. Modern English. The rest of your retort is a bizarre stew of 19th-century propaganda (starting with Uncle Tom's Cabin, which is read "by title" rather more these days than for either entertainment or edification), ethnological speculation, discredited racializing, and aspects of Afrocentrism. I thought Rod Jones (sorry if I misremember the name!) explicated your case quite adequately. - -- Peter T. Daniels grammatim@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:00:36 +0200 From: "Bjarte Kaldhol" Subject: ane Phoinike/Canaan Dear listmembers, I have been very busy lately and could not take part in the Canaan/Phoinike discussion, but here is a small contribution. E. Adams asks in his post of Sept 4: 'Which is earlier in the Greek corpus, Phoenicia or Phoenicians? Was the land named after the people, or the people after the land?' In Homer, both Phoinike (the land) and Phoinix (the inhabitant) is used. In the Mycenaean Linear B texts, the following words are found (I am paraphrasing from Francisco Aura Jorro's Diccionario Micenico): ponikeja (Knossos) - probablemente *Phoinikeia (procedente de una designacion profesional 'mujer que se ocupa de la purpura'...). ponike(qe), ponikipi (Pylos) - se admite unanimemente la interpr. phoinix con el significado de 'palma, palmera'... ponikija/ponikea (Knossos) - se admite unanimemente la interpr. phoinikios, phoinikios... adj. de color que designa una variedad de rojo 'carmesi, purpura'... ponikijo (Knossos) - es sin duda un fitonimo, medido con unidades de peso... (also adjective)... Which means that we cannot know whether the Mycenaeans in the 14th or 13th century BC used this word about the country or its inhabitants at all. In Linear A, there is only one similar word, punikaX (where the value of the last syllabogram X is unknown; it probably denotes a non-Greek consonant plus a vowel), found in a tablet from Zakros with eight single words, each followed by a number. These words may be personal/place names or perhaps items delivered or received (GORILA vol. III, p. 180.) It cannot be ruled out that Phoinike originally was a Hurrian word adapted to Greek, possibly *Poin/Pin/Pun-uxe, meaning 'pertaining or relating to Poin/Pin/Pun-' whatever that (or he) might have been. The ending -xe is also used in the name of a Hurrian kingdom in Upper Mesopotamia, Kadmu-xe, the country relating to *Kadme, and, as mentioned before, in Kinaxxe (see Landsberger in JCS 8, 1954). The Hurrian name of Kommagene was Kummuxe, 'Land of Kumme'. However, since the Hurrian ending -xe was used in many ways, there is also a possibility that the word phoinike originally meant something derived from a shell or a plant or whatever, cp. mi$uxxe at Nuzi, 'ein Farbstoff', 'Gewander $a mi-$u-ux-xe' HSS 13, 431, 57/9 (cited from von Soden's Akkadisches Handworterbuch). In that case, poin/pin/pun-uxe might have been another Hurrian word for purple (at Nuzi, kinaxxe was used in this sense, but there were several Hurrian dialects). Against this, one might object that Greek phoinix was also the name of the date palm. How did the date palm come to be associated with purple? Did the murex shells and the tree (or fruits) have anything in common? Best regards to all who like to speculate (without going too far), Bjarte Kaldhol ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 22:34:30 +0200 From: "Dr. Stefan Weninger" Subject: Re: ane Bilingual ancient inscriptions Dear Mrs Ghembaza, Homeritai in this inscritpion just means "Himyarites". I think it's no wonder you didn't find it in your Greek lexicon. The term probably is too far off for classicists. The context in all the versions of the inscriptions is the same: A list of the countries and peoples King Ezana is claiming to rule. By the way: The equation Homeritai = Himyar poses an interesting linguistic problem: It suggests that the vocalisation "H.imyar", transmitted by the Arabs, is not the only possible vocalisaton. Homeritai points to a vocalisaton "*H.umayr" > "*H.umeer". Greetings, Stefan Weninger Thérèse Ghembaza wrote: > > Dear Dr. Stefan Weninger, > > on Sun, August 22, you wrote : > > >I'm sorry, but your information is not quite correct. "Homeritai" in the > >Greek version of Bent I (now quoted as RIÉ 270) is just the > >transcription of the ethnonym "Himyar" in the Ethiopian version(s) and > >has nothing to do with the famous Greek poet. > > So I thank you for your rectification, but as I am not a specialist, > please could you tell me what means exactly the greek term "Homeritai". In > my greek-french dictionnary (Bailly) I found only "Omeridai", the ones who > sang the poems of Homer or who were supporters of Homer. And what is the > context of the Aksum inscription ? > Thanking you for teaching me, > > Thérèse Ghembaza > Paris, France - -- PD Dr. Stefan Weninger Institut fuer Semitistik Veterinaerstr. 1 80539 Muenchen GERMANY Tel.: +49-89-2180-3713 Fax: +49-89-2180-3851 Home: Rosenaustr. 50 86150 Augsburg Tel: +49-821-510363 - -- PD Dr. Stefan Weninger Institut fuer Semitistik Veterinaerstr. 1 80539 Muenchen GERMANY Tel.: +49-89-2180-3713 Fax: +49-89-2180-3851 Home: Rosenaustr. 50 86150 Augsburg Tel: +49-821-510363 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 22:21:44 -0400 From: David Meadows Subject: ane The Ancient World on Television (North America) ]|[============================================]|[ ]|[ ]|[ THE ANCIENT WORLD ON TELEVISION ]|[ ]|[ (NORTH AMERICA) ]|[ ]|[ September 6 - 12, 1999 ]|[============================================]|[ A busy week, but much is repeated a couple times ... All times Eastern: ]|[ Monday, September 6 7.00 p.m. HISTU In Search Of ... King Tut Wow ... the History Channel is running the series which is probably the reason why you're able to read these listings ... when I was but a teenager, it was the In Search Of ... series that first got me thinking about archaeological mysteries and the like; it's probably really grainy, really out of date (they first aired in the mid-1970's!), and often bordering on the silly, but they're fun to watch still (I hope!). 7.30 p.m. HISTU In Search Of ... Pyramid Secrets This one was one of the most unique episodes: examining the suggestion that the pyramids were a sort of ancient bomb shelter ... 9.00 p.m. HISTU Roman War Machine First Our Neighbors ... Joe Campanella hosts this really decent series about Roman military stuff; the first episode looks at Rome's army in the early Republic.0 9.00 p.m. PBS In the Footsteps of Alexander Across the Hindu Kush The series continues with Michael Wood wandering through the Hindu Kush mountains, wondering about the size of Alexander's ego ]|[ Tuesday, September 7 8.00 p.m. HISTU England's Great Wall Oft-repeated look at Hadrian's ego 9.00 p.m. HISTU Roman War Machine Roman v. Roman Julius Caesar's army ... 9.00 p.m. HISTC Egypt: Quest for Eternity A National Geographic thing on recent (but not too recent) discoveries in Egypt 10.00 p.m. HISTC Secrets of Ancient Mexico This is part of the Ancient Civilizations series (or so the blurb claims); this episode concentrates primarily on Teotihuacan ]|[ Wednesday,September 8 3.00 p.m. HISTU In Search of ... Troy A nice quick look at Heinrich Schliemann ... 3.30 p.m. HISTU In Search of ... Atlantis Examining the suggestion the "14 huge stone buildings beneath the waters of the Bahamas" are the remains of Atlantis ... 8.00 p.m. HISTU Knights of Camelot A look at the veracity of tales of Arthur et al ... 9.00 p.m. HISTU Roman War Machine Roman Siege Warfare Roman engineering in war ... 9.00 p.m. DISCU Napoleon's Lost Fleet In case you've missed it these past few weeks ... 10.00 p.m. HISTU Plumbing Arteries of Civilization I seem to recall an AWOTV reader telling me that this program contains substantial ancient material ... it's all about the history of plumbing ]|[ Thursday, September 9 8.00 p.m. HISTU England's Lost Castles The timber castles which once dominated the English countryside. 9.00 p.m. HISTU Roman War Machine Barbarians at the Gate Rome's army before the fall ... (no, not autumn) ]|[ Friday, September 10 8.00 p.m. HISTU Missing Princes Did Richard the III whack his two young nephews? ]|[ Saturday, September 11 3.00 p.m. DISCU Napoleon's Lost Fleet Yep ... it's on yet again 3.00 p.m. HISTU England's Great Wall Repeat of Tuesday's program 4.00 p.m. HISTU Knights of Camelot Repeat of Wednesday's program 5.00 p.m. HISTU England's Lost Castles Repeat of Thursday's program 5.00 p.m. HISTC Egypt: Quest for Eternity Repeat of Tuesday's program 6.00 p.m. HISTC Secrets of Ancient Mexico Ditto 7.00 p.m. A&E Mysteries of the Bible Jesus: Holy Child Scholars argue about various facts about Jesus' life, including his birth date 10.30 p.m. DISCC Arthur Clarke Secrets of the Ancient World Actually, Arthur Clarke was right up there with the 'In Search of Series' in terms of 'formative influences' (such as they were) of your well-caffeinated editor; this episode looks at the Anasazi and various other ancient mysteries ]|[ Sunday, September 12 12.00 p.m. A&E Mysteries of the Bible Jesus: Holy Child Repeat of Saturday's program 1.00 p.m. A&E Ancient Mysteries Samurai! The warriors of feudal Japan ... 1.00 p.m. HISTU Roman War Machine HISTU is rerunning all four episodes of the series, beginning at 1.00 8.00 p.m. CNBC National Geographic Explorer Mummies of Gold I'll hopefully be regularly including CNBC in the lineup now; this episode deals with the discoveries at the Barhariya oasis of late (thanks to numerous folks for the heads up!) ++ Next installment on or about September 12, 1999++ ]|[============================================]|[ A channel guide is available at: http://web.idirect.com/~atrium/awotv/channelguide.html ]|[============================================]|[ To subscribe to these listings, send a blank email message to: AWOTV-subscribe@onelist.com To unsubscribe from these listings, send a blank email message to: AWOTV-unsubscribe@onelist.com Or go to: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/AWOTV ]|[============================================]|[ Copyright (c) 1999 David Meadows. Feel free to distribute these listings via email to your pals, students, teachers, etc., but please include this copyright notice. Please do not post these listings to your website, but rather make a link to: http://web.idirect.com/~atrium/awotv.html Thanks! ]|[============================================]|[ ]|[ David Meadows ]|[ http://web.idirect.com/~atrium ]|[ Rogue Classicist ]|[ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 21:47:04 -0700 From: "John A. Halloran" Subject: ane Sumerian lexicon The on-line lexicon of the ancient Sumerian language has doubled in size, to 3,766 words. Version 3.0 also has a new home at: http://www.sumerian.org/ Regards, - ------------------------------------------- John Halloran http://www.sumerian.org/ e-mail: seagoat@primenet.com ------------------------------ End of ANE Digest V1999 #251 **************************** Back issues are available on the Oriental Institute World-Wide Web (WWW) site at: http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/ANE/OI_ANE.html