From: owner-ane@ (ANE Digest) To: ane-digest Subject: ANE Digest V1999 #313 Reply-To: Sender: owner-ane@ Errors-To: owner-ane@ Precedence: bulk ANE Digest Monday, November 8 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 313 Re: ane michugas Re: ane michugas Re: ane Re: transliteration Re: ane Re: transliteration ane Unicode is here [was: transliteration] Re: ane Re: transliteration ane:address request ane Re: The Purple Fleece. ane Jobs: Cotsen Institute of Archaeology at UCLA Re: ane humans, demons, and ardent-lilies ane: Question about the future of ANE Studies Re: ane humans, demons, and ardat-lili ane Re: AEGEANET Re: The Purple Fleece. Re: ane: Question about the future of ANE Studies Re: ane: Question about the future of ANE Studies Re: ane Unicode is here [was: transliteration] ane literary analysis of the Story of Sinuhe Re: ane Unicode is here [was: transliteration] ane: Thanks Re: ane michugas ane Walter Simmon's chronology Re: ane Walter Simmon's chronology ane HIERATIC ANNOUNCEMENT Re: ane Re: The Purple Fleece. ane 3 jabirus for Lorton's impressive literary analysis of the Story of Sinuhe; Suggestions Re: ane michugas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:44:33 +0200 (IST) From: chaim cohen Subject: Re: ane michugas Dear List Members, Two minor corrections to my last posting on the BH root $g`: 1. In my paragraph 2, I am obviously referring to Akk. kalbu $egu^ (NOT segu^ as was mistakenly written) "a vicious, rabid dog". 2. In that same paragraph, the reference to Ex. 21:39 should read Ex. 21:29. All the best, Chaim Cohen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 13:17:38 +0200 (IST) From: avigdor horovitz Subject: Re: ane michugas $ame on u! Victor On Sun, 7 Nov 1999, chaim cohen wrote: > Dear List Members, > Two minor corrections to my last posting on the BH root $g`: > 1. In my paragraph 2, I am obviously referring to Akk. kalbu $egu^ (NOT > segu^ as was mistakenly written) "a vicious, rabid dog". > 2. In that same paragraph, the reference to Ex. 21:39 should read > Ex. 21:29. > All the best, > Chaim Cohen > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 07:12:11 -0400 From: "Peter T. Daniels" Subject: Re: ane Re: transliteration Not "universally," but when we have six closely related classical languages, any or all of which might show up in a philological discussion of any of them, it needs to be possible to transliterate them all with non-conflicting systems. avigdor horovitz wrote: > > You raise a problem here of whether a transliteration system should be > universally applicable or be good for a single language. I know that some > people may not insist on using a dotted or a rockered h for het in > Akkadian since there is only one het and no he. It makes things easier and > there is no room for confusion, but most people nonetheless continue > marking the het. I guess ultimatley it's a matter of personal or editorial > preference and consideration of the needs of the potential audience. - -- Peter T. Daniels grammatim@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 14:33:24 +0200 (IST) From: avigdor horovitz Subject: Re: ane Re: transliteration as I said before, it ultimately depends who the audience is. For some table in Hebrew is $ulxan, for others shulhan or shulkhan are quite sufficient. Victor On Sun, 7 Nov 1999, Peter T. Daniels wrote: > Not "universally," but when we have six closely related classical > languages, any or all of which might show up in a philological > discussion of any of them, it needs to be possible to transliterate them > all with non-conflicting systems. > > avigdor horovitz wrote: > > > > You raise a problem here of whether a transliteration system should be > > universally applicable or be good for a single language. I know that some > > people may not insist on using a dotted or a rockered h for het in > > Akkadian since there is only one het and no he. It makes things easier and > > there is no room for confusion, but most people nonetheless continue > > marking the het. I guess ultimatley it's a matter of personal or editorial > > preference and consideration of the needs of the potential audience. > -- > Peter T. Daniels grammatim@worldnet.att.net > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 08:41:30 -0600 From: laura@rconnect.com Subject: ane Unicode is here [was: transliteration] On 7 Nov 99, at 7:12, Peter T. Daniels wrote: > when we have six closely related classical > languages, any or all of which might show up in a philological > discussion of any of them, it needs to be possible to transliterate them > all with non-conflicting systems. In the coming months (when W2000 is released), Unicode should *finally* become useable in email. Unicode is 16 bit, and even now encodes any letter or diacritic you would really need (all European languages are accomodated, including those using Cyrillic and Greek; fully pointed Hebrew and Arabic as well as IPA, and apparently, Devanagari, are already available). It's actually probably presently usable, but not every email reader is compliant, and worse, the keyboard software has not yet caught up. It can be used with web documents, however, provided you have the latest-greatest of Netscape and Internet Explorer (you need the *free* font, Lucida Sans Unicode, to make it work tho'). Within a matter of months, I think, as soon as someone fixes the keyboard accessability issue, everyone will be learning how to make the changeover and all these transliteration issues will be moot. Even today, were I to put my mind to it, I could transcribe *any* page from Daniels and Bright's _The World's Writing Systems_ using only the basic, off-the-rack Windows software I have on this platform, and slap it up onto a web page. - -- Mark Odegard laura@rconnect.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 16:28:13 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: ane Re: transliteration > as I said before, it ultimately depends who the audience is. For some > table in Hebrew is $ulxan, for others shulhan or shulkhan are quite > sufficient. > Victor I agree with you on functionality criteria, but, in my opinion, the ideal would be to employ only one ASCII character for one phoneme, for two reasons, first, avoiding ambiguity (shulhan/shulkhan etc. is a well-known word, but, in other cases, one reader might wonder if you are transcribing a het or a kaph-he cluster); second, and perhaps more important, the growing use of transcribed text as encoded sourcecode for a database or other kind of computer utility. Until some world-wide agreement is reached, sourcecodes are just convention, but, anyway, it is much easier and time-saving to manage single-sign conversion into, say, a transcription TTF font, than to deal with sign-clusters with different possible readings (teaching a computer to discriminate between kh for het and kh for kaph-he would be far more difficult). Yours, Andrés Piquer Otero Departamento de Estudios Hebreos y Arameos Facultad de Filología Universidad Complutense de Madrid ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 10:46:22 -0500 From: "Liz Fried" Subject: ane:address request Oops. When I asked if anyone knew the address of Janet Johnson, I meant her *e-mail* address. Sorry. Does anyone have her e-mail address? Thanks, Liz Lisbeth S. Fried Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies New York University 51 Washington Sq. S. New York, NY 10012 lizfried@umich.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:23:15 -0600 From: laura@rconnect.com Subject: ane Re: The Purple Fleece. 0100,0100,0100On 6 Nov 99, at 13:35, Ivanovas/Milatos wrote: I wrote, re the opening of the Black Sea to regular through trade from the Aegean: 0000,0000,FF00>> Such a voyage would have been sensational, and all the >> petty city-state kings would have wanted to get into the >> profitable Black Sea trade as soon as possible > But how about the Milesian settlers who are supposed to have 0000,0000,FF00> reached Trapezunt and Kolchis at about that time? My suggestion (and that is all it is) is that the Black Sea was not really opened to through- navigation to the Aegean until this time. I might be wrong, but the evidence of E. huxleyi not arriving into the Black Sea until this time is compelling (future seabed core samples may revise this date). This is not to say the Greeks were unaware of what lay on the shores of the Black Sea, only that it seems they did not get there directly by ship from the Aegean (at least on a regular basis) until rather late. I wonder if there is evidence for a later 'Trojan War' (something on the Asiatic side of the Dardenelles/Hellespont), sometime after 800, something not too unlike the US and its actions against the Barbary Pirates in the early 1800s CE -- a police action, a military action to keep the locals from imposing 'taxes' on sea trade a la the Rhenish robber barons of the European Middle Ages. The Argo was a *big* ship, a longship, fifty oars. At the core, the story celebrates not so much the adventures of the Argonauts, as the Argo herself. She represented an immense technological innovation. It seems such a ship was possible in late Mycenaean times, at least so my reading indicates -- but E. huxleyi suggests otherwise. When were such ships really in use? > There are also very 0000,0000,FF00> interesting parallels between the Greek story of the golden fleece and the > Hittite myth of the weather god Telipinu and the snake Illuyanka, (cf. > Haas, Magie und Mythen im Reich der Hethiter). In Hittite ritual red wool > and especially prepared fleeces are often mentioned. So it seems rather > plausible that the connection between the eastern Black Sea and the Golden > Fleece lies in earlier (pre-)history, even if Homer didn't mention the > connection. Red fleece. Purple fleece. Dark fleece. And our old friend, the wine dark sea. Homeric Greek, it seems, had color words only for black, white, and what Berlin calls 'row', a color in the red and yellow region. The oft-mentioned story of using a sheepskin to capture fine alluvial gold (gold dust presumably) seems plausible enough, but the red fleece of the Hittites, and the golden sheep of Helios, and as some of the ancients insisted, the golden sheep (instead of apples) of the Hesperides, introduces additional questions. Are we talking about Murux purple? Or are we talking about gold? Or are we speaking of sheep with white wool that dyes to a beautiful purple, and makes cloth worth its weight in gold? - -- Mark Odegard laura@rconnect.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:34:34 -0500 From: "Charles E. Jones" Subject: ane Jobs: Cotsen Institute of Archaeology at UCLA Forwarded on behalf of the undersigned, to whom responses and inquiries should be directed. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From:Julia Sanchez University of California, Los Angeles. The Cotsen Institute of Archaeology at UCLA invites applications for the position of Assistant Director. The Assistant Director will be in charge of the day-to-day intellectual and research activities within the Institute. This individual will also play a major role in developing and shaping the future directions of the Institute. A strength in administration as well as a vision of the future of archaeological research are desired. Time for individual research or teaching is part of this position. PhD or MA in archaeology or related field dealing with ancient societies (anthropology, classics, near eastern studies, etc.) is required. Additional information about the Institute can be found at: www.sscnet.ucla.edu/ioa Deadline: January 21, 2000. Send application letter, CV, and names and addresses of three references to: Assistant Director Search Committee; The Cotsen Institute of Archaeology at UCLA; Fowler A-210; UCLA; Los Angeles, CA 90095-1510. =================================== University of California, Los Angeles. The Cotsen Institute of Archaeology at UCLA invites applications for the annual Cotsen Visiting Scholars position. The purpose of this visiting scholars program is to invite an archaeologist (recent PhD to senior scholar) to join the Cotsen Institute of Archaeology and to teach one graduate seminar, to conduct own research and writing, and to participate in the activities of the Institute during the 2000/2001 academic year. The Cotsen Visiting Scholar will be in residence for a period of one to three 10-week quarters (Oct. 1 - June 20). A stipend of $30,000 is available. Additional information about the Institute can be found at www.sscnet.ucla.edu/ioa Candidates should send a letter of application that describes their current research, the proposed research/writing activities at the Institute, and the proposed seminar that they will teach at UCLA. In addition, candidates should send a CV and three names and addresses of references. Deadline for applications is March 1, 2000. Applications should be sent to: Cotsen Visiting Scholar Committee; The Cotsen Institute of Archaeology at UCLA; Fowler A-210; Los Angeles, CA 90095-1510. ______________________________________ Julia Sanchez Assistant Director The Cotsen Institute of Archaeology at UCLA A210 Fowler UCLA Box 951510 Los Angeles, CA 90095-1510 Tel: (310) 825-4004 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 00:47:40 -0800 (PST) From: dr-e-m-winocur@webtv.net (Dr. Emanuel M. Winocur) Subject: Re: ane humans, demons, and ardent-lilies - --WebTV-Mail-15835-2716 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable Dear Richard: Wonder no more. I myself am the evidence of frustrated human being following a post~mortem of irreproductible youngsters in turmoil, during the process of autopsy during my time in medical school. It is an academic hell (diabolic~demon) to get an =91=91A=92=92 for the report~test. Apologizing for the irresistible impulse of sense of humor. Forgive me. Emanuel Winocur *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* For free, feed the hungry at: http://www.thehungersite.com/ - --WebTV-Mail-15835-2716 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-101-1.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.97) by storefull-252.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 15:52:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mailsorter-101-1.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) id 217061A24F0; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 15:49:44 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: dr-e-m-winocur@webtv.net Received: from asmar.uchicago.edu (asmar.uchicago.edu [128.135.244.37]) by mailsorter-101-1.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C56FFEBBA for ; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 15:40:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from md194@localhost) by asmar.uchicago.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA26450 for ane-outgoing; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 16:20:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from ursa.calvin.edu (ursa.calvin.edu [153.106.4.1]) by asmar.uchicago.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26446 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 16:20:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from GWISE (gwise.calvin.edu [153.106.4.30]) by ursa.calvin.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA28746 for ; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 17:19:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from Calvin-Message_Server by GWISE with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 06 Nov 1999 17:20:01 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.3 Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 17:19:54 -0500 From: "Richard Whitekettle " To: Subject: ane humans, demons, and ardat-lili Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-ane@oi.uchicago.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: "Richard Whitekettle " In Foster's Before the Muses there is an incantation against the demon Ardat-lili (2nd edition, volume 2, pages 855-857) which describes the demon as being a young man who (among other things) "took no wife, raised no child" or as a girl who (among other things), "was never impregnated...who produced no son" I'm wondering if, 1. This is a male human being or a female human being who never reproduced and after death became a demon. or, 2. This is a demon who, being a sexually aggressive demon, is described in reproductively frustrated human terms. If it is no. 2, can one assume that reproductively frustrated post-mortem humans are in turmoil, and that this turmoil is what the demon's behavior is being associated with? Is there any evidence for the post-mortem turmoil of reproductively frustrated human beings? Thanks Richard Whitekettle - --WebTV-Mail-15835-2716-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 13:18:11 -0800 (PST) From: Brett Mackellar Subject: ane: Question about the future of ANE Studies Fellow listmembers, I've had little reason to poke my head up over the past year and a half or so, but I would like to propose a question that might be a bit shocking to the scholars and students of Ancient Near Eastern studies that was brought forth by Dr. Brian Fagan in a recent edition of "Discovering Archaeology." Unfortunately, I must work from memory, as I have lent my copy to my archaeology professor, but I feel I can do it justice. In the article to which I refer, Dr. Fagan questions the need for universities to continue to issue PhD's to students in the light of recent developments in the field of archaeology. Primary among these is the increase in CRM (Cultural Resource Management) use in the United States, which is truly little more than salvage archaeology in many cases. The growing demand for skilled CRM fieldworkers and a percieved decrease in interest in "purely academic" archaeological pursuits (ie: Mesoamerican studies and Egyptological digs) by major universities leads Dr. Fagan to conclude that the days of the academic archaeologist/philologist are tapering off and that the CRM scholar is the archaeologist of the future. Dr. Fagan has posed the fundamental question as to the size and integrity of the field of archaeology, and I feel obliged to seek answers. My query to the readers of this list is, obviously, whether or not this is an agreeable viewpoint. If not, what is the current status of ANE studies? Are there any trends that seem to indicate a shrinking career field? I would very much appreciate any thoughts or opinions that might be provided by the members of this list and would like to thank all of you in advance for your time. Sincerely, Brett MacKellar ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 13:29:19 -0800 From: preta@earthlink.net Subject: Re: ane humans, demons, and ardat-lili A rather good explaination can be found in Contenau's La Magie chez les Assyriens et les Babyloniens starting on page 94. It seems to be a female demon ( not male) who attacks men and steals children. I have heard them referred to as a form of Lilith. If memory serves ardat-lili neams 'night maiden' in Akkadian. Also you might try Thompson's Semitic Magic for some information about post-mortum sexual (familial) frustration. Triszna Leszczyc preta@earthlink.net Richard Whitekettle wrote: > > In Foster's Before the Muses there is an incantation against the demon > Ardat-lili...... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 17:34:51 -0800 From: "Morris Silver" Subject: ane Re: AEGEANET Re: The Purple Fleece. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00EF_01BF2946.653B5520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear List Members: For extensive evidence bearing on the dating of the Argonaut expedition = and for Hittite parallels, please see Ancient Economies I, kindly cited = in an earlier post by Mark Odegard. Best, Morris Morris Silver Department of Economics City College of New York ANCIENT ECONOMIES I http://sondmor.tripod.com/index-html - ------=_NextPart_000_00EF_01BF2946.653B5520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear List Members:
 
For extensive evidence bearing on the dating of the = Argonaut=20 expedition and for Hittite parallels, please see Ancient Economies I, = kindly=20 cited in an earlier post by Mark Odegard.
 
Best,
Morris
 
Morris Silver
Department of Economics
City = College of=20 New York
 
ANCIENT ECONOMIES I
http://sondmor.tripod.com/i= ndex-html
 

- ------=_NextPart_000_00EF_01BF2946.653B5520-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 00:07:59 +0100 From: "Dr. Stefan Weninger" Subject: Re: ane: Question about the future of ANE Studies Please tell a naive German philologist: What the heck is "Cultural Resource Management"? No matter what it is, it sounds just like it'll be fashionable in the academic-political discussion of Germany of the next season, so I have to know! Thank you, greetings, Stefan Weninger Brett Mackellar wrote: > > Fellow listmembers, > > I've had little reason to poke my head up over the > past year and a half or so, but I would like to > propose a question that might be a bit shocking to the > scholars and students of Ancient Near Eastern studies > that was brought forth by Dr. Brian Fagan in a recent > edition of "Discovering Archaeology." Unfortunately, > I must work from memory, as I have lent my copy to my > archaeology professor, but I feel I can do it justice. > > In the article to which I refer, Dr. Fagan questions > the need for universities to continue to issue PhD's > to students in the light of recent developments in the > field of archaeology. Primary among these is the > increase in CRM (Cultural Resource Management) use in > the United States, which is truly little more than > salvage archaeology in many cases. The growing demand > for skilled CRM fieldworkers and a percieved decrease > in interest in "purely academic" archaeological > pursuits (ie: Mesoamerican studies and Egyptological > digs) by major universities leads Dr. Fagan to > conclude that the days of the academic > archaeologist/philologist are tapering off and that > the CRM scholar is the archaeologist of the future. > Dr. Fagan has posed the fundamental question as to the > size and integrity of the field of archaeology, and I > feel obliged to seek answers. > > My query to the readers of this list is, obviously, > whether or not this is an agreeable viewpoint. If > not, what is the current status of ANE studies? Are > there any trends that seem to indicate a shrinking > career field? > > I would very much appreciate any thoughts or opinions > that might be provided by the members of this list and > would like to thank all of you in advance for your > time. > > Sincerely, > > Brett MacKellar > > ===== > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - -- PD Dr. Stefan Weninger Institut fuer Semitistik Veterinaerstr. 1 80539 Muenchen GERMANY Tel.: +49-89-2180-3713 Fax: +49-89-2180-3851 Home: Rosenaustr. 50 86150 Augsburg Tel: +49-821-510363 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 15:39:17 -0800 (PST) From: Brett Mackellar Subject: Re: ane: Question about the future of ANE Studies Sincerest apologies, Doctor, for neglecting to throw in a bit of interesting information detailing the difference between New and Old World archaeology. In the U.S., CRM is a system whereby archaeological licenses are granted to independent contractors for the rights to a particular digsite. The contractor then digs at that site, which is often the area where, say, a new road will be placed or the underlying site will be disturbed in some major way. In short, it is a means of quickly taking the artifacts out of a specific site and attempting to salvage as much data as possible. It isn't really a new idea, but it is problematic in that it involves the handling of archaeological evidence by a private company rather than a university. While these companies are legislated by the government, it still represents the commercialization of archaeology in America. As to the implications for other nations, it is quite possible that this could become a trend, although I hope not. I sincerely hope I have helped to clarify the issue. If not, please feel free to ask me to be a bit more concise. Sincerely, Brett MacKellar - --- "Dr. Stefan Weninger" wrote: > Please tell a naive German philologist: What the > heck is "Cultural > Resource Management"? No matter what it is, it > sounds just like it'll be > fashionable in the academic-political discussion of > Germany of the next > season, so I have to know! > > Thank you, > greetings, > Stefan Weninger > > > -- > PD Dr. Stefan Weninger > Institut fuer Semitistik > Veterinaerstr. 1 > 80539 Muenchen > GERMANY > > Tel.: +49-89-2180-3713 > Fax: +49-89-2180-3851 > > Home: > Rosenaustr. 50 > 86150 Augsburg > Tel: +49-821-510363 > ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 19:02:47 -0500 From: John McKendry Subject: Re: ane Unicode is here [was: transliteration] laura@rconnect.com wrote: > > In the coming months (when W2000 is released), > Unicode should *finally* become useable in email. > I would venture to guess that I am not the only reader of this list who does not use Windows, any flavor, and does not want to be forced to use it in the future. I use Linux because it is technically superior to any Microsoft product, it is free, and it does not engage in the practice of forcing its users to pursue an endless path of mandatory multi-hundred-dollar upgrades to new, unstable, misfeature-rich software every few years. Given that the audience for this list is heavily weighted toward the academic, it's my guess that there are a number of readers using some flavor of unix, Macintosh, or non-Microsoft products such as Eudora. > It can be used with web documents, however, > provided you have the latest-greatest of Netscape > and Internet Explorer (you need the *free* font, > Lucida Sans Unicode, to make it work tho'). Neither Netscape not Internet Explorer is available for the non-Intel-based versions of Linux. More to the point, email is supposed to be text, readable from a command line without recourse to any sort of high-falutin' graphics capability. Web documents are wonderful things, but they belong in Web browser windows, not in email. > Even today, were I to put my mind to it, I could > transcribe *any* page from Daniels and Bright's > _The World's Writing Systems_ using only the basic, > off-the-rack Windows software I have on this > platform, and slap it up onto a web page. > Indeed, and you could mail it to anyone else who uses the same basic off-the-rack Windows software. And when you upgrade to Windows 2000 and Office 2000, you will be able to do even more wonderful things and share them with even fewer people. Actually, I understand that Unicode is not Microsoft-specific, and that some day, Unicode-capable mail readers may be as common as dirt. Even if that happens, and even if the Ugaritic Cuneiform working group, for instance, picks up the pace of its work and produces a standard, there will still be those of us who would benefit from a good uniform system of transliteration. Or am I the only one on this list who's not planning to install Windows 2000 the day it's released? - -John McKendry - -- No Microsoft products were used to create or send this message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 20:26:01 -0500 From: David Lorton Subject: ane literary analysis of the Story of Sinuhe During the weekend, I've added an essay entitled "Reading the Story of Sinuhe" to my Web site: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/1326 David Lorton ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 20:56:08 -0500 From: Jonathan Lewinsohn Subject: Re: ane Unicode is here [was: transliteration] - --=====================_6264635==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" John- While I respect your choice not to use Microsoft products you must realize that at least for the time being programs such as MS Outlook are the best for things like transliteration, unicode etc. What you were in effect arguing in your email was that people should not use the best available software since others will not be able to do the same. Those willing to invest in the best products shall and will produce better results, and they should not be lambasted by you or anyone for that matter for progressing. In addition, your assertion that "Web documents are wonderful things, but they belong in Web browser windows, not in email," is simply preposterous. According to your logic we should all still be using telnet based email! If one can better illustrate a point using web documents then by all means he/she should go ahead with the endeavor. the fact that some people who choose not to invest in the best software will not be able to view the graphics does not mean that the rest of us should be deprived of the optimal learning experience. I agree that on a list filled with academics an effort should be made to accommodate all, but the tone of your letter seemed to advocate an end to progression as well as an inappropriate dislike for Microsoft. - -Jonathan At 07:02 PM 11/7/99 -0500, you wrote: >laura@rconnect.com wrote: >> >> In the coming months (when W2000 is released), >> Unicode should *finally* become useable in email. >> >I would venture to guess that I am not the only reader of this >list who does not use Windows, any flavor, and does not want >to be forced to use it in the future. I use Linux because it is >technically superior to any Microsoft product, it is free, and >it does not engage in the practice of forcing its users to pursue >an endless path of mandatory multi-hundred-dollar upgrades to new, >unstable, misfeature-rich software every few years. Given that the >audience for this list is heavily weighted toward the academic, it's >my guess that there are a number of readers using some flavor of unix, >Macintosh, or non-Microsoft products such as Eudora. > >> It can be used with web documents, however, >> provided you have the latest-greatest of Netscape >> and Internet Explorer (you need the *free* font, >> Lucida Sans Unicode, to make it work tho'). > >Neither Netscape not Internet Explorer is available for >the non-Intel-based versions of Linux. More to the point, email is >supposed to be text, readable from a command line without recourse >to any sort of high-falutin' graphics capability. Web documents are >wonderful things, but they belong in Web browser windows, not in email. > >> Even today, were I to put my mind to it, I could >> transcribe *any* page from Daniels and Bright's >> _The World's Writing Systems_ using only the basic, >> off-the-rack Windows software I have on this >> platform, and slap it up onto a web page. >> > Indeed, and you could mail it to anyone else who uses the same basic >off-the-rack Windows software. And when you upgrade to Windows 2000 >and Office 2000, you will be able to do even more wonderful things >and share them with even fewer people. > Actually, I understand that Unicode is not Microsoft-specific, and that >some day, Unicode-capable mail readers may be as common as dirt. Even >if that happens, and even if the Ugaritic Cuneiform working group, for >instance, picks up the pace of its work and produces a standard, there >will still be those of us who would benefit from a good uniform system >of transliteration. > Or am I the only one on this list who's not planning to install Windows >2000 the day it's released? > >-John McKendry > >-- >No Microsoft products were used to create or send this message. Jonathan Lewinsohn 308 University Avenue - Apt. 6 Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 269-0416 - --=====================_6264635==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
John-

While I respect your choice not to use Microsoft products you must realize that at least for the time being programs such as MS Outlook are the best for things like transliteration, unicode etc.  What you were in effect arguing in your email was that people should not use the best available software since others will not be able to do the same.  Those willing to invest in the best products shall and will produce better results, and they should not be lambasted by you or anyone for that matter  for progressing.  In addition, your assertion that "Web documents are wonderful things, but they belong in Web browser windows, not in email," is simply preposterous.  According to your logic we should all still be using telnet based email!  If one can better illustrate a point using web documents then by all means he/she should go ahead with the endeavor.  the fact that some people who choose not to invest in the best software will not be able to view the graphics does not mean that the rest of us should be deprived of the optimal learning experience.  I agree that on a list filled with academics an effort should be made to accommodate all, but the tone of your letter seemed to advocate an end to progression as well as an inappropriate dislike for Microsoft.

-Jonathan

At 07:02 PM 11/7/99 -0500, you wrote:
>laura@rconnect.com wrote:
>>
>> In the coming months (when W2000 is released),
>> Unicode should *finally* become useable in email.
>>
>I would venture to guess that I am not the only reader of this
>list who does not use Windows, any flavor, and does not want
>to be forced to use it in the future. I use Linux because it is
>technically superior to any Microsoft product, it is free, and
>it does not engage in the practice of forcing its users to pursue
>an endless path of mandatory multi-hundred-dollar upgrades to new,
>unstable, misfeature-rich software every few years. Given that the
>audience for this list is heavily weighted toward the academic, it's
>my guess that there are a number of readers using some flavor of unix,
>Macintosh, or non-Microsoft products such as Eudora.
>
>> It can be used with web documents, however,
>> provided you have the latest-greatest of Netscape
>> and Internet Explorer (you need the *free* font,
>> Lucida Sans Unicode, to make it work tho').
>
>Neither Netscape not Internet Explorer is available for
>the non-Intel-based versions of Linux. More to the point, email is
>supposed to be text, readable from a command line without recourse
>to any sort of high-falutin' graphics capability. Web documents are
>wonderful things, but they belong in Web browser windows, not in email.
>
>> Even today, were I to put my mind to it, I could
>> transcribe *any* page from Daniels and Bright's
>> _The World's Writing Systems_ using only the basic,
>> off-the-rack Windows software I have on this
>> platform, and slap it up onto a web page.
>>
> Indeed, and you could mail it to anyone else who uses the same basic
>off-the-rack Windows software. And when you upgrade to Windows 2000
>and Office 2000, you will be able to do even more wonderful things
>and share them with even fewer people.
> Actually, I understand that Unicode is not Microsoft-specific, and that
>some day, Unicode-capable mail readers may be as common as dirt. Even
>if that happens, and even if the Ugaritic Cuneiform working group, for
>instance, picks up the pace of its work and produces a standard, there
>will still be those of us who would benefit from a good uniform system
>of transliteration.
> Or am I the only one on this list who's not planning to install Windows
>2000 the day it's released?
>
>-John McKendry
>
>--
>No Microsoft products were used to create or send this message.
 







        =           &= nbsp;         &n= bsp;         &nb= sp;                 &n= bsp;         &nb= sp;         &nbs= p;          = ;         
Jonathan Lewinsohn
308 University Avenue - Apt. 6
Ithaca, NY 14850
(607) 269-0416 - --=====================_6264635==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 21:23:45 -0500 From: "Liz Fried" Subject: ane: Thanks Thanks to all, I now have two e-mail addresses for Janet Johnson. Thank you very much. Liz Lisbeth S. Fried Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies New York University 51 Washington Sq. S. New York, NY 10012 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 21:06:25 -0600 From: "Donald R. Vance" Subject: Re: ane michugas Excuse me? Says who? On 11/6/99 5:08 AM, Peter T. Daniels, with the address of grammatim@worldnet.att.net, did pen the following: - -snip- > >Prescriptive grammar has no place on ANE List. - -snip- >-- >Peter T. Daniels grammatim@worldnet.att.net > Donald R. Vance, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Biblical Languages and Literature Undergraduate Theology Oral Roberts University drvance@oru.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 22:55:40 -0500 From: "Dr. Michael Fuller & Neathery Fuller" Subject: ane Walter Simmon's chronology The Dendrochronological date for the Ulu Burun shipwreck place it just after 1306 BCE. A scarab of queen Nefertiti (wife of Amenhotep IV/Akenaton) was found in the shipwreck with numerous LB artifacts. This date is far out of the sequence proposed by Walter Simmons. The website for Ulu Burun is at http://nautarch.tamu.edu/INA/ub_main.htm Best wishes. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 00:15:00 EST From: JDe2129629@aol.com Subject: Re: ane Walter Simmon's chronology In a message dated 11/8/99 4:38:57 AM !!!First Boot!!!, mfuller@artsci.wustl.edu writes: > The Dendrochronological date for the Ulu Burun shipwreck place it just after > 1306 BCE. Dear List Members: I was not aware that a complete sequence of tree rings going back to the fourteenth century BC had been established. Could someone tell me how far back the current state of Dendrochronology has been able to give year dates? Sincerely Yours, John Charles Deaton Richmond, Virginia USA http://members.aol.com/jde2129629/page/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 21:51:59 -0800 From: "Sheldon Gosline" Subject: ane HIERATIC ANNOUNCEMENT HIERATIC PALEOGRAPHY ANNOUNCEMENT!! A New Revolutionary Book for the Study of Ancient Egyptian Language is soon to be published. It is first in a planned series to provide an easy to use system for hieratic research along with a completely new hieratic font. Prof. Sheldon Lee Gosline, Egyptologist and former JAC Chief Editor has just released a new book entitled HIERATIC PALEOGRAPHY 1: Introductory Late Egyptian. ISSN 1527-2281, no. 1, cloth bound 240pp + vi The cost for the book alone is $ 35.50 each + $ 10.00 shipping and handling. The font on disk is $ 90.00. Pre-publication orders may be placed via E-mail to gosline@egypt.net or gosline@hotmail.com. As long as supplies last, a complimentary copy of the first edition of Writing Late Egyptian Hieratic are being offered for orders placed before December 1999. Payment can be made by check or money order to ¡°Sheldon L. Gosline¡± at his US home address, ¡°# 3 Coburn Hill Road, Box 65, Warren Center PA 18851-0065 USA¡±. INTRODUCTION A year ago, I wrote an ¡°Apology¡± in beginning of my book, Writing Late Egyptian: A Beginner¡¯s Primer, because I did not include hieroglyphic equivalents in the body of the text, and because I had no hieratic font. Not knowing that I would be able to create a font prototype so quickly, I suggested that we might consider the long discarded project in the future. In 1865, W. Pleyte attempted to introduce a standard font for hieratic. Since then, all hopes of a standard hieratic font were discarded ¡°once and for all,¡± according to Gardiner, writing in 1929. Now, seventy years later, I am pleased to offer, through this present book, an introductory hieratic font for Late Egyptian, based on a standardized stroke sequence. ¡°Hieratic¡± is the term that Egyptologists have traditionally given to the form of ancient Egyptian writing that was written in a more cursive form and usually on papyrus. As such, hieratic spans a variety of grammar phases of the language. Most of the texts were written in either Middle or Late Egyptian. Middle Egyptian was the classical form of the language and persisted as the more archaic form of writing, as found in monumental stone carvings, and was usually written in the hieroglyphic script. There is evidence of Late Egyptian use as early as the first Intermediate period, but Late Egyptian was not commonly written down until the Amarna Period of the New Kingdom. In the Ramesside Period, Late Egyptian came to be the primary form of record keeping and literary compositions began to be crafted in this form of the language as well. Hieratic was not only the means to communicate literary compositions and documentation, but also for technical medical and mathematical t! exts, occasional stelae, many graffiti and a large number of other rock inscriptions. In some of these cases, hieratic forms appear alongside texts written in hieroglyphic or cursive hieroglyphic. The Middle Kingdom coffin texts were written in cursive hieroglyphic or a predecessor of hieratic also found in New Kingdom mortuary papyri. Texts may be preserved in both hieroglyphic and hieratic form such as the Carnarvon Tablet, the first Kamose Stela, the Loyalist Instruction, and the Kadesh poem in P. Sallier III, but we often have only the hieratic version of a text. Conversely, hieratic letter documents are sometimes only preserved in their fully transcribed form in hieroglyphic versions such as the letter from Amenhotep II to Usersatet, and a letter from Pepy II inscribed on Harkuf¡¯s tomb in his autobiography. DESCRIPTION This font and paleography provide a beginning step in a new approach to studying hieratic texts. The stroke sequence manual presents the first systematic ordering for any possible hieratic sign, ligature or group writing. The Gardiner sign list provides a cross reference with that long established classification system. This book provides a wide variety of both paleographic styles and fonts. It also provides an easy reference system, whereby hieroglyphic equivalents for different hieratic signs can be studied. In that respect, it is also a useful supplement to Möller¡¯s century old reference work, which we may eventually replace. The PALEOGRAPHY is divided into two main sections. The first organizes the signs according to stroke sequence and type. The second section puts the signs in Gardiner sign list order. There is an easy to use cross reference index and sample hieratic text using the new fonts. The fonts include an index of signs for easy cut and paste use, following the order presented in Gardiner sign list section of the book. Again for more information about this new book and the hieratic font please contact me. Sheldon Lee Gosline gosline@egypt.net - ------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 14:50:38 -0800 (PST) From: dr-e-m-winocur@webtv.net (Dr. Emanuel M. Winocur) Subject: Re: ane Re: The Purple Fleece. - --WebTV-Mail-1167-4737 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable I got panicky for an instant; I thought I was blind. Then I realize that this message was a sort of secret one we use to write with invisible ink during childhood. What I received was black background written with black letters and dark blue. =BF?=BF?=BF?Could it be rewritten legible??? *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* For free, feed the hungry at: http://www.thehungersite.com/ - --WebTV-Mail-1167-4737 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-102-3.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.121) by storefull-254.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Sun, 7 Nov 1999 11:35:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mailsorter-102-3.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) id B8C01D7C; Sun, 7 Nov 1999 11:35:54 -0800 (PST) Delivered-To: dr-e-m-winocur@webtv.net Received: from asmar.uchicago.edu (asmar.uchicago.edu [128.135.244.37]) by mailsorter-102-3.bryant.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A66D40 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 1999 11:35:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from md194@localhost) by asmar.uchicago.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA28221 for ane-outgoing; Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:18:27 -0600 (CST) Received: from m1.rconnect.com (m1.rconnect.com [209.163.30.3]) by asmar.uchicago.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28217 for ; Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:18:23 -0600 (CST) From: laura@rconnect.com Received: from odegard.means.net (pmwauk1-160.rconnect.com [209.163.39.160]) by m1.rconnect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA28921; Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:18:19 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199911071818.MAA28921@m1.rconnect.com> To: , , "Ivanovas/Milatos" Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:23:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: ane Re: The Purple Fleece. In-reply-to: <005501bf284d$dc8d3de0$d58b5cc1@oemcomputer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-ane@oi.uchicago.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: laura@rconnect.com 0100,0100,0100On 6 Nov 99, at 13:35, Ivanovas/Milatos wrote: I wrote, re the opening of the Black Sea to regular through trade from the Aegean: 0000,0000,FF00>> Such a voyage would have been sensational, and all the >> petty city-state kings would have wanted to get into the >> profitable Black Sea trade as soon as possible > But how about the Milesian settlers who are supposed to have 0000,0000,FF00> reached Trapezunt and Kolchis at about that time? My suggestion (and that is all it is) is that the Black Sea was not really opened to through- navigation to the Aegean until this time. I might be wrong, but the evidence of E. huxleyi not arriving into the Black Sea until this time is compelling (future seabed core samples may revise this date). This is not to say the Greeks were unaware of what lay on the shores of the Black Sea, only that it seems they did not get there directly by ship from the Aegean (at least on a regular basis) until rather late. I wonder if there is evidence for a later 'Trojan War' (something on the Asiatic side of the Dardenelles/Hellespont), sometime after 800, something not too unlike the US and its actions against the Barbary Pirates in the early 1800s CE -- a police action, a military action to keep the locals from imposing 'taxes' on sea trade a la the Rhenish robber barons of the European Middle Ages. The Argo was a *big* ship, a longship, fifty oars. At the core, the story celebrates not so much the adventures of the Argonauts, as the Argo herself. She represented an immense technological innovation. It seems such a ship was possible in late Mycenaean times, at least so my reading indicates -- but E. huxleyi suggests otherwise. When were such ships really in use? > There are also very 0000,0000,FF00> interesting parallels between the Greek story of the golden fleece and the > Hittite myth of the weather god Telipinu and the snake Illuyanka, (cf. > Haas, Magie und Mythen im Reich der Hethiter). In Hittite ritual red wool > and especially prepared fleeces are often mentioned. So it seems rather > plausible that the connection between the eastern Black Sea and the Golden > Fleece lies in earlier (pre-)history, even if Homer didn't mention the > connection. Red fleece. Purple fleece. Dark fleece. And our old friend, the wine dark sea. Homeric Greek, it seems, had color words only for black, white, and what Berlin calls 'row', a color in the red and yellow region. The oft-mentioned story of using a sheepskin to capture fine alluvial gold (gold dust presumably) seems plausible enough, but the red fleece of the Hittites, and the golden sheep of Helios, and as some of the ancients insisted, the golden sheep (instead of apples) of the Hesperides, introduces additional questions. Are we talking about Murux purple? Or are we talking about gold? Or are we speaking of sheep with white wool that dyes to a beautiful purple, and makes cloth worth its weight in gold? - -- Mark Odegard laura@rconnect.com - --WebTV-Mail-1167-4737-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 21:43:06 -1000 From: "Randall Larsen" Subject: ane 3 jabirus for Lorton's impressive literary analysis of the Story of Sinuhe; Suggestions Listmembers, I enjoyed David Lorton's impressive literary analysis of the story of Sinuhe at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/1326/sinuhe.html I award Lorton's discussion 3 jabirus for "impressiveness." He gives some important clues to understanding the translation given by Miriam Lichtheim. Ancient Egyptian Literature 222-235. He reminds us of what we don't know reading the text centuries after it was written: *** The original audience of the Story of Sinuhe would have known many details regarding the death of Amenemhet and the circumstances of Sesostris’ assumption of sole rule, details of which we remain ignorant. *** Lorton also points out important uncertainties in translation such as the referent of .f in the following passage: *** “I did not plan to approach this Residence, having reasoned that a political disturbance would occur. I did not think I would survive him!” Various translators notwithstanding, .f of ‘nx r-s3.f cannot refer to the “political disturbance,” which is grammatically feminine, so the referent of .f must be Sesostris. *** Lorton calls our attention to the importance of Parent's legal analysis of the story to an understanding of the plot. To frost the cake Lorton offers a "Freudian analysis" of Sinuhe that is illuminating. Thankfully Lorton does not engage in the class conflict analysis methods of critical theorists or postmodern semiotic analysis. What _is_ left out of the scope of Lorton's treatment is an analysis of possible ritual imagery in the text. J.P. Allen in his brief treatment of the text in Essay 20 of _Middle Egyptian_ (p. 280-283) mentions that Sinuhe (sA-nht) means "Son of the Sycamore." I suggest that this name "son of the sycamore" carries with it a lot of baggage. The name "son of the sycamore" suggests that the Story of Sinuhe is the literary treatment of a rite de passage or ritual birth into manhood. For one thing the sycamore is the tree of the lady Hathor whose name is written she who encloses Horus. Horus you will recall is the Falcon. At one point in the story it is said of the King Sesosiris the Falcon has fled(l 20). It is now Sinuhe who is the bird in the tree (or box) so to speak (see CT 156 Tb vogel en kasten). I believed there would be turmoil and I did not expect to survive it.(Lichteim 224). Sinuhe sets out southward in search of an ark of safety. The religious imagery of travel by boat (on the desert sand!) is carried through until Sinuhe's mooring (death at the end of the story). Sinuhe crosses Maaty (exactness and honor) near Sycamore (Hathor again). [see Goedicke JEA 43 1957 cited by Lichteim] At the Mistress of the Red Mountain (the sun rising over the mountain of Hathor?) he reverses his direction and goes North. This I suggest is a winter Solstice motif. The waning sun turning north now waxes. Sinuhe has gone forth to recover his strength to gain power over his legs which trembled at the news of the first King's death. If Sinuhe flinched at his moment of trial it was because he was overcome by what seemed to be overwhelming force. Sinuhe overcomes self-doubt to gain confidence that he is "strong of arm" The birth from a tree motif (son of sycamore) refers also to an eclipse motif seen in CT 156. The sun is overcome by the moon. It shows its plumes (solar flares) during the totality of the eclipse as Tb (vogel en kasten Wb). Then the bird (or Falcon) is released from the tree as it splits open. The bird flies up regaining its strength. [This motif of the sun's birth from a tree also occurs in the Mesoamerican codex Borgia]. I believe Lorton is right when he says that more work is needed on the Story of Sinuhe. I suggest new things remain to be discovered when the literary text is considered in the context of its ritual background. Due to Lorton's thought provoking essay, I intend to put up my own treatment of Sinhue on my website soon. Once again three Jabirus for Lorton's cogent Essay. Randall Larsen University of Hawaii at Manoa larsenr@hawaii.edu - -----Original Message----- From: David Lorton To: ane list Date: Sunday, November 07, 1999 5:13 PM Subject: ane literary analysis of the Story of Sinuhe >During the weekend, I've added an essay entitled "Reading the Story of >Sinuhe" to my Web site: > >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/1326 > >David Lorton > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 09:09:28 +0100 From: Kurt Oertel Subject: Re: ane michugas "chris.cleutjens" wrote: > Dutch: "Meshôggê" = Crazy, nuts, foolish... > in Amsterdam Also in modern German the term "meschugge" is quite colloquial, meaning the same thing as above. Kurt Oertel, Kiel, Germany ------------------------------ End of ANE Digest V1999 #313 **************************** Back issues are available on the Oriental Institute World-Wide Web (WWW) site at: http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/ANE/OI_ANE.html