From: ane-digest-owner@oi.uchicago.edu To: ane-digest@oi.uchicago.edu Subject: Ancient Near East Digest V1 #60 Reply-To: ane@oi.uchicago.edu Errors-To: ane-digest-owner@oi.uchicago.edu Precedence: bulk Ancient Near East Digest Friday, 4 March 1994 Volume 01 : Number 060 In this issue: BAR Re: Hebrew transliteration schemes New Translation Series? Re: Hebrew transliteration schemes WSD File Coming [none] Patrick Durusau's messages Re: Patrick Durusau's messages Hebrew transliteration schemes blacksmith Re: Hebrew transliteration schemes Initiation & Healing Hebrew transliteration ^2 ANE/Hebron/massacre Re: ANE/Hebron/massacre College Art Paper Re: tm and the circumstantial clause Re: Tel Dan/Afrocentrism/BAR Re: Hebrew transliteration schemes Re re re... Hebrew transliteration Re: Tel Dan/Afrocentrism/BAR See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the ANE or ANE-Digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DWILDISH@oise.on.ca Date: Wed, 02 Mar 1994 12:26:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: BAR If the opinion of a non scholar counts for anything, I for one think that the recent criticisms of BAR are somewhat unjust. In a media dominated by quacks and pseudo-scholarship on biblical related matters (evidence last year's productions by CBS in which the existence of Noah's ark, the flood and a host of other biblical miracle stories were "proved"--I believe CBS later appologized for those shows claiming they were unaware that thewere bubunk) BAR's attempts to bring the fruits of competent scholarship to thgeneral ppublic is a refreshing change. Without BAR and BR, the general public is going to get all its information from sensationalist programs such as these and from the countless fundamentalist-type programs that glut the airwaves. Is it any wonder that the general public so badly misinformed on the subject? And as the bi-monthly flood of letters to BAR and BR from angry fundamentalists cancelling their subscriptions show, BAR and BR, while certainly reflecting the views of individuals with a faith of some kind, do not appeal to the . lowest common denomenator. They are, on the whole, transmitters of responsible scholarship. Anyway, those are my two cents worth. Bruce Wildish Toronto ------------------------------ From: "Jack M. Sasson" Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 12:34:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Hebrew transliteration schemes It is true that now more people will be able to use Hebrew fonts and they will not need to transliterate; which is really too bad. Transliteration forces people to really understand the grammar (eg when a dages is doubbled, when a qames is short u-vowel, etc) and when it is avoided, we will all have to work harder to know if people really understand the Hebrew from which they are pontificating. (Just go over transliterations in recent published articles and you will quickly realize how low philology has sunk these days.) On Wed, 2 Mar 1994, Raymond Hobbs wrote: > Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 10:23:17 -0500 (EST) > From: Raymond Hobbs > To: "Richard L. Goerwitz" > Cc: ane@mithra-orinst.uchicago.edu > Subject: Re: Hebrew transliteration schemes > > On Tue, 1 Mar 1994, Richard L. Goerwitz wrote: > > > I've been struggling with the transliteration schemes used by JBL, CBQ, > > and virtually every existing introductory biblical Hebrew textbook. Is > > anyone else out there as frustrated as I am? The real problem seems to > > be accommodating the various theoretical positions on Hebrew phonology, > > and yet meeting the pedagogical needs of Hebrew teachers and the typo- > > graphical needs of printers and editors. > > > > I've written up a brief (five or six page) outline of a solution to the > > problem, i.e. a proposal for a modernized transliteration standard > > (which is sorely needed). Would anyone like to take a look at it and > > comment? > > > > -Richard Goerwitz > > U of Chicago > > > Richard: > I would be pleased to receive your outline, and to offer comments. I > wonder, though, whether the situation is becoming less serious. I think > that with increased development of computer fonts, and the use of > desk-top publishing (or at least computerised page-setting), the original > script rather than a transliteration will be used more and more. > Ray Hobbs > McMaster University > Divinity College > Hamilton, Ontario > L8S 4K1 > Canada > ------------------------------ From: cejo@midway.uchicago.edu (Charles E. Jones) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 94 12:00:17 CST Subject: New Translation Series? In their brochure distributed at the APA meetings in December, Paul Astroms Forlag included the following entry: DOCUMENTA MUNDI Indica 1. Indische Anthologie. Klassische Dichtung ubertragen und interpretiert von Siegfried Lienhard [Dec. 1993] Sumerica 1. Sumerian Proverbs. In preparation Hettitica 1. The Hittite Theogony. In preparation Aegyptiaca 1. Poetry of ancient Egypt. In preparation 2. Egyptian Historical Records, 19th Dynasty. In preparation 3. Egyptian Historical Records, 20th Dynasty. In preparation Mycenaea 1. The Linear B texts from Mycenae.. In preparation Publisher's Preface The purpose of this series is to make Ancient Near Eastern and Mediterranean texts available to students in transcriptions and translations as a kind of Loeb or Bude editions for pre-classical documents Can anyone provide any further information on who's preparing these volumes (or anything else about the series for that matter)? - -Chuck- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Charles E. Jones Research Archivist - Bibliographer The Oriental Institute - Chicago Voice (312) 702-9537 Fax (312) 702-9853 cejo@midway.uchicago.edu ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ From: "David I. Owen" Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 13:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Hebrew transliteration schemes I like your Freudian slip, "eg when a dages is doubbled" In message Wed, 2 Mar 1994 12:34:02 -0500 (EST), "Jack M. Sasson" writes: > It is true that now more people will be able to use Hebrew fonts and they > will not need to transliterate; which is really too bad. Transliteration > forces people to really understand the grammar (eg when a dages is > doubbled, when a qames is short u-vowel, etc) and when it is avoided, we > will all have to work harder to know if people really understand the > Hebrew from which they are pontificating. (Just go over transliterations > in recent published articles and you will quickly realize how low > philology has sunk these days.) > > On Wed, 2 Mar 1994, Raymond Hobbs wrote: > > >> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 10:23:17 -0500 (EST) >> From: Raymond Hobbs >> To: "Richard L. Goerwitz" >> Cc: ane@mithra-orinst.uchicago.edu >> Subject: Re: Hebrew transliteration schemes >> >> On Tue, 1 Mar 1994, Richard L. Goerwitz wrote: >> >> > I've been struggling with the transliteration schemes used by JBL, >> CBQ, > and virtually every existing introductory biblical Hebrew >> textbook. Is > anyone else out there as frustrated as I am? The real >> problem seems to > be accommodating the various theoretical positions >> on Hebrew phonology, > and yet meeting the pedagogical needs of Hebrew >> teachers and the typo- > graphical needs of printers and editors. >> > >> > I've written up a brief (five or six page) outline of a solution to >> the > problem, i.e. a proposal for a modernized transliteration >> standard > (which is sorely needed). Would anyone like to take a look >> at it and > comment? >> > >> > -Richard Goerwitz >> > U of Chicago >> > >> Richard: >> I would be pleased to receive your outline, and to offer comments. I >> wonder, though, whether the situation is becoming less serious. I >> think that with increased development of computer fonts, and the use >> of desk-top publishing (or at least computerised page-setting), the >> original script rather than a transliteration will be used more and >> more. Ray Hobbs >> McMaster University >> Divinity College >> Hamilton, Ontario >> L8S 4K1 >> Canada >> >> > ------------------------------ From: Patrick Durusau Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 11:35:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: WSD File Coming Friends, Yesterday you may have been sent what looked like encoded files bearing the subject line "Cuneiform WSDs." The files were encoded due to a defect in the Pine mailer I was using that assumed that uploaded PC files were program files. That defect has not been fixed yet, so I am using the plain Unix Mail command at the prompt to re-post this file. The message will not bear a subject line but will have my email address as sender. I appreciate those who took the time to point out this error in my mailer, as when the files were send back to my address, my mailer un-encoded the files, so I had no notice of this problem. I hope you find the posting on Cuneiform WSDs both interesting and useful. Patrick Patrick Durusau Knowledge not freely shared is knowledge stolen. P.O. Box 81126 Conyers, GA 30208 pdurusau@crl.com ------------------------------ From: Patrick Durusau Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 11:54:24 -0800 Subject: [none] I previously posted the following questions to TEI-L, ANE, CAAL and SGML-L. This is a cross-posted summary of the replies, please pardon any duplication. >1. Are there any present efforts to create WSDs (Writing System >Declarations) that conform to the guidelines in TEI P2, Chapter WD >(Draft Version 2, September 20, 1993) for any of the languages found in >Labat's *Manuel dEpigraphie Akkadiene? None of the responses received indicated the existence of any present projects to create WSDs for any language written in Cuneiform script. Note, copies of the TEI Writing System Declaration guidelines may be obtained from the listserv@uicvm.bitnet with the message "get P2WD.DOC" or from the ftp site at sgml1.ex.ac.uk. >2. Would anyone reading this message be interested in forming an ad hoc >group for the purpose of creating such WSDs? (Given the small number of replies, I thought it best to include the relevant parts of all responses. It has the advantage of conveying interests and experience of the respondents in their own words.) From Harry Gaylord (galiard@let.rug.nl) Yes TEI would like very much to have a wsd for cuneiform. I am chairman of the relevant technical group. Please would anyone wanting to cooperate on this work contact me directly. From Jill Hart (g.r.hart@durham.ac.uk) I was very interested to see your message, and would also like to know the answer to your first question. I am working on Hittite and many years ago put some Hittite texts on computer, for which I had to devise as it were a transliteration of the conventional transliterations, marking Sumerograms and Akkadograms as well as normal Hittite spellings with the limited means then available. The end-product of course contained layers of interpretation which took it a long way from the strings of raw cuneiform in the original texts. There is the problem of multiple values of signs, and different cuneiform corpora from various sites having their own selections of values, so producing a convention for uniquely representing each sign would only be the first step. Susan Hockey at CETH would be an ideal person to talk to about this: I've tried to forward your message to her, but she's probably seen it anyway. I look forward to seeing what replies you get from elsewhere. Best wishes, Jill Hart. From Steve Tinney (ajt@enlil.museum.upenn.edu A friend on the ANE list forwarded your appeal to me, and I thought I should at least touch base. I must say up-front that I am sceptical about the value of such encodings because I don't really see who would use them for publication, or what benefit they would bring over and above the other methods of disseminating the material. I'm willing to be convinced, though! I have something of an insider's view on this, so I may be missing more general points. Steve - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Tinney Babylonian Section University Museum of the University of Pennsylvania sjt@enlil.museum.upenn.edu Phila, PA. 215-898-4047 From: C. M. Sperberg-McQueen (U35395%UICVM@UIC.EDU) >1. Are there any present efforts to create WSDs (Writing System >Declarations) that conform to the guidelines in TEI P2, Chapter WD >(Draft Version 2, September 20, 1993) for any of the languages found in >Labat's *Manuel dEpigraphie Akkadiene? As you know from Harry Gaylord's reply to you, there have been none yet, but the TEI would certainly like to encourage such efforts. >2. Would anyone reading this message be interested in forming an ad hoc >group for the purpose of creating such WSDs? You may count me in --- not as a reader of cuneiform, but as someone interested in ensuring that WSDs can be made to work properly for such scripts. From Lloyd Anderson (ecoling@applelink.apple.com) Am very much interested in what you propose for Cuneiform, but interpretation is always involved to the extent of identifying which sign is present (though not necessarily in identifying what its transliteration value is, etc.). I assume you mean a coding of the Cuneiform signs as Cuneiform signs? I have investigated the matter of a standard coding for the purposes of the international code standard committees. Do you have recommended lists? I forget just now which ones came most hightly recommended, but I think it was near 200-300 interpretations for a total of some 600 signs? Or the reverse of that? At Ecological Linguistics we are very interested in producing fonts for these, and I am sending you a sample of the quality we produced for the very small set of Persian Cuneiform. There are of course violent stylistic preferences in the field, open (line-drawn) vs. filled (black) signs, etc. What is not possible for computer coding is to represent a photograph of some specialist's hand drawing of the signs, since there are no two tokens of the same sign in that sense. I have not posted this to any of the other lists, although am on the CAAL, and I thought ANE but did not yet at least receive your message through them. What are the other lists you mention? Lloyd Anderson, Ecological Linguistics From Neel Smith (nsmith@polar.bowdoin.edu) I would be very interested in a cuneiform wsd -- or wsd's, since it seems to me that, e.g., Akkadian and Hittite (the only two cuneiform languages I've studied) would require separate (although in some ways quite similar) wsd's. Neel Smith nsmith@polar.bowdoin.edu From: Jeff Lloyd (lloydj@srv0.div.edinburgh.ac.uk) Patrick Durusau, I have rather belatedly come to your message of last week concerning WSDs. I find the idea very interesting, especially in my own interest of Ugaritic texts. At the moment I am writing up my PhD to a deadline of the end of this month, so I am unable to contribute much at the moment, although I imagine that by mid-march (when I've recovered) I would be able to devote some time to this. My original question on Ugaritic encoding stems from my inputting of Ug texts onto my own computer in order to search for specific text, etc. I use a transliteration font at the moment, but if I want to send my data to colleagues, the text becomes garbled. Some kind of ASCII compatible standard would be ideal. I am unaware of the TEI guidelines you mention in your original posting. Do you have an electronic version that you could send me to look over? I wish you luck with your idea, and if I continue at Edinburgh after I finish, I will be in touch in the spring. Best wishes, Jeff LloydJeff Lloyd Jeff.lloyd@ed.ac.uk New College lloydj@srv0.div.ed.ac.uk University of Edinburgh Scotland ------------------------------ From: Mike O'Brien Date: Wed, 02 Mar 1994 11:53:42 -0800 Subject: Patrick Durusau's messages The long, binhex-looking stuff you're seeing from Patrick Durusau is, it turns out, an artifact of his mail system. His messages are in a new Internet multimedia standard mail format called MIME, using an encoding called BASE64. Unfortunately those who get ANE stuff in digest format can't see this because the digestification software seems to strip the MIME mail headers from his messages. If you copy his message to a file, add these header lines: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 and then read the result with a MIME mail reader, all of his material will magically become clear. N.B. Don't ask me where to get a MIME mail reader. I use the 'mhn' part of the MH package on a Sun workstation. Those with PCs or Macs are on their own. Mike O'Brien ------------------------------ From: Borre Ludvigsen Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 20:24:22 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Patrick Durusau's messages On Wed, 2 Mar 1994, Mike O'Brien wrote: > N.B. Don't ask me where to get a MIME mail reader. I use the 'mhn' part of > the MH package on a Sun workstation. Those with PCs or Macs are on their > own. There are MIME compatible mailers fro both PC's and Macs -try the ftp archives or ask on the relevant USENET news groups. - - Barre Ludvigsen ------------------------------ From: Alan Cooper and Tamar Frank Date: Wed, 02 Mar 1994 16:33:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Hebrew transliteration schemes Thank you for your offer, Richard. May I suggest that, before you launch a lead balloon, you consult the writings of my colleague Werner Weinberg, who has spent the better part of the past 30 years describing and prescribing Hebrew transliteration schemes for various purposes. I recently became aware that since the turn of the century (at least), there has been a small coterie of individuals advocating the universal romanization of Hebrew--not just for transliteration purposes, but for everything (except for religious texts, in deference to certain sensibilities). Reminiscent of the notion that arose during the Mao era that Chinese literacy would be enhanced by romanization, which engendered an experiment in language engineering that failed totally. That had nothing to do with Richard's post, of course :-) The main point, I suppose, is that any transliteration, going back to Origen's Secunda, will work pretty well for an audience that knows the language, whereas they're all more or less useless for those who don't. With good wishes, Alan Cooper, HUC-JIR ------------------------------ From: C R Pennell Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 09:53:58 +0800 (SST) Subject: blacksmith I was going to reply to this thread earlier, but the run in to exams, bureaucracy etc got in the way. Hope it's not too late. Moroccan blacksmiths in pre-colonial, and indeed colonial times were virtual outcasts. The presence of fire and dirt attracted jinn (evil spirits), so that smithing often remained in the family - not only because that way skills were passed on, but also because other people were reluctant to marry them. There are stories that in many areas blacksmiths were literally black - and the balck community, certainly in the northern part of Morocco were a subservient (though not slave) group. On blacksmiths in the Rif (along the Moroccan Mediterranean coast) see David Hart, THE AITH WARYAGHAR OF THE MOROCCAN RIF" AN ETHNOGRAPHY AND HISTORY (tuscon, 1976) p63, On SIlversmiths - who were usually Jewish in the Rif (another "out-group) see 1bid, 45, 82 On Jinn/junun see ibid 155. Sorry it all has to be from Hart (which is excellent btw) - the most complete account of this would probably be in Westermarck, RITUAL & BELIEF IN MOROCCO, but our library always loses the race to get it from second-hand sellers! (Anyone like to sell us one?) Finally a genuine eye-witness account (after a fashion)> The British Consul-General in Morocco (1829-45) wrote in his notebooks (Bodleian MS ENG HIST D493, 127): _Fire - the devil_ My son John tells me that he has heard the Blacksmiths in Tangier frequently invoke the Deity while at their work, as if to keep themselves & the work of their hands scathless form the Evil Spirit, which they conceive to dwell in an around fires: The boy that blows the smith's bellows frequently calls on God to drive away the Devils & _Djeen_, turns round & spits, & puffs away with his bellows then again with more gaiety & confidence. Richard Pennell History National University of Singapore hiscrp@leonis.nus.sg ------------------------------ From: fknobloc@sas.upenn.edu (Frederick Knobloch) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 15:09:28 EST Subject: Re: Hebrew transliteration schemes Richard L. Goerwitz wrote: > > I've been struggling with the transliteration schemes used by JBL, CBQ, > and virtually every existing introductory biblical Hebrew textbook. Is > anyone else out there as frustrated as I am? The real problem seems to > be accommodating the various theoretical positions on Hebrew phonology, > and yet meeting the pedagogical needs of Hebrew teachers and the typo- > graphical needs of printers and editors. A related problem is the use of the same transcription scheme for various periods of Hebrew. What works for Tiberian Hebrew won't be appropriate for reconstructed pre-exilic Hebrew because of problems like the pronunciation of qamets. I don't know how much reading you have done on the subject, but in addition to Weinberg's article there is a fairly recent book-length treatment by Wolfgang Richter. He, like Weinberg, proposes multiple systems for various purposes. > > I've written up a brief (five or six page) outline of a solution to the > problem, i.e. a proposal for a modernized transliteration standard > (which is sorely needed). Would anyone like to take a look at it and > comment? I would be happy to take a look and offer comments. Fritz Knobloch Penn ------------------------------ From: KCHANSON@rocky.claremont.edu Date: Thu, 03 Mar 1994 12:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Initiation & Healing Steven Muir asked about the relationship between initiation, mysticism, and healing in ancient religions. I have an article coming out in an upcoming issue of _Semeia_ entitled: "Jesus on the Mountain: A Ritual Analyis of the Gospel of Matthew." Using a (mostly) Turnerian model of ritual transformation, I argue that Jesus goes "to the mountain" (*eis to oros) five times, each the location of a transformation. The mountain (always unnamed) is the locus of: a) initiation (ch. 4); b) teaching (ch. 5-7); c) healing (ch. 15); d) transfiguration (ch 17); and e) commissioning (ch. 28). I don't know if this is the kind of thing you are looking for or not. Besides Turner's works, you might want to consult: J. S. La Fontaine. _Initiaion_. Themes in Social Anthropology. Manchester: Manchester Univ. Press, 1986. She has great ethnographic analyses of various initiation rituals and their interpretations, including Native American rituals, which may have some of the connections you are seeking. K. C. Hanson The School of Theology at Claremont *********************************** kchanson@rocky.claremont.edu ------------------------------ From: "Richard L. Goerwitz" Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 16:55:24 CST Subject: Hebrew transliteration ^2 My mailbox has been _flooded_ with requests for the transliteration proposal. Still, if anyone wants a copy, I'll be happy to send it out. Feedback is important at this stage, as the whole idea is to arrive at a consensus. Revolution is not the aim. Bob Johnson (Vanderbilt), with whom I have been collaborating, and I essentially believe that a good MT transliteration system must: 1) focus on the Tiberian (vs. Bab., Palest.) pointing system 2) be phone{t,m}ically representative, as far as possible 3) keep separate the various historically distinct strata within the MT 4) be easy to learn and to typeset 5) enable one to reconstruct MT spellings We also believe that transliteration should be used only under very specific circumstances, namely 1) in introductory textbooks 2) in discussions geared for non-Hebraists 3) in treatments of various grammatical points As many have pointed out, (VT guidelines notwithstanding) there is really no reason not to use the Hebrew script itself for most purposes. Some have commented that changing things now would just cause an unnecessary stir. This is a point worth exploring. I myself find it troubling, though, how the "high" grammatical literature after Bergstraesser (incl. Bauer/Leander, Jouon, Cantineau, Morag, Meyer, Blau, Muraoka-Jouon, Garr, Bendavid, Khan, etc.) uses a broadly similar system, while the more popular textbooks and journals rely on what amount to extensions of the scheme used before 1850 - before relations between pronunciation and pointing traditions were really understood, and the matres were typically treated as reflecting the same system as the diacritics. There are, of course, notable exceptions. Nat-Koopmans uses a very workable transliteration system. Subsequent revisers, however, watered it down more and more - so much, in fact, that I cannot see anything of the original Nat-Koopmans insight in the recent French edition of Lettinga. Bob and I also question the pedagogical efficacy of starting with the Tiberian system, mapping this to the Qimhian system, then mapping this, in turn, to the General Standard Israeli pronunciation (which the popular transliteration systems force us to do). Using GSI is quite appropriate. We simply don't see why anyone would need the Qimhian "middleman." In our opinion, there has to be a simpler, pedagogically effective, and more linguistically representative way of doing things. In fact, such a system exists in the "high" grammatical literature. With just a few simple modifications, this can be accommodated to common and typographically naive use. Our proposal does this, setting the whole enterprise within the context of scholarly opinion on the subject from medieval times up through the present (primarily after the publication of the Diqduqe ha-Taamim, which appears to have started a chain reaction that led to the ouster of the Qimhian system in the "high" literature by about 1910). As I stressed above, this proposal is anything but revolutionary. Many who ask for a copy will find nothing in it that they haven't already felt or thought or written about themselves. In a way, we simply want to validate current practice by knocking down the dubious distinction between popular and scholarly transliteration systems. Thanks everyone for responding, Richard U of Chicago ------------------------------ From: ofer avi Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 01:45:01 +0200 (IST) Subject: ANE/Hebron/massacre A large number of responses (the greatest I have ever had) reached me following my denunciation message, all of them were supporting (with one exception). In my humble opinion this moral attitude is to be appreciated, even if it would have nothing to do with ANE. However, it seems that no one noted the sad irony in my opening phrase: "Although this has no direct connection with ANE, ...". Can anyone seriously think that notions such as Hebron, Qiryat-'Arba`, Machpelah, Settlers, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and, last but not least, Purim and the Megillah, all components of this horrific event, have no DIRECT connection with Ancient Near East (in which the Bible and ancient Israelite history are an integral part) ? Can this event be understood at all without understanding its deep cultural roots, which have to be found exactly in our field of research (from Agag the Amalekite to Haman the Agagite)? As the excavator of Biblical Hebron and the explorer of Judean Highland, as an historian of Biblical Judah, should I close my eyes in front of the DIRECT impact of the ancient culture - object of my research - on contemporaneous culture and history, played on the very same scene? And should we leave this scene for the nonhuman concepts of _Herem_ and _Horasha_, as if they are the sole Biblical inheritance, or is it our DUTY to remind the more decisive aspect of Biblical ethics, the one which is best expressed by Jesaiah? Oh, dear colleague who ask for respite in the warm bosom of ancient history - believe me, in the troubled land from which I send my messages we need this respite more than anyone else. But till "it shall come to pass, in the last days", our silence cannot be interpreted otherwise than a _betrayal of the intellectuals_. "It is not for us to finish the work", yet we are committed to integrate our historical researches within the intellectual efforts to understand human condition, as the gateway for a better future. Is not THIS both the aim and the _raison d'etre_ of Humanities? Avi Ofer. ------------------------------ From: "James Strange (REL)" Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 21:05:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: ANE/Hebron/massacre Indeed I believe you are right avi ofer, and we will continue to commit the sin of the intellectual (silence), if left to "dispassionate science." ------------------------------ From: Megan L Cifarelli Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 22:07:37 -0500 Subject: College Art Paper Recently, Michelle Marcus reported on the paper that I gave in February at the College Art Association meetings. My subject was the role of gesture as a means of political and social differentiation in Assyrian art of the 9th c. BCE. If anyone is interested in a copy of this paper, I would be interested in comments and criticisms, as this is very much a work in progress. Megan Cifarelli ------------------------------ From: rosmord@lifac1.ens-cachan.fr (Serge Rosmorduc) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 11:04:34 +0100 Subject: Re: tm and the circumstantial clause WILLEM HOVESTREYDT writes : I discussed Ron Leprohon's query with Louis Zonhoven, who is not yet on > e-mail, and he asked me to pass on the following comments. > > Willem Hovestreydt > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- .... > circumstantial function occur instead. The use of tm in circumstantial verb > forms is regular after the particle/ initial preposition ir, where it negates > the circumstantial sdm=f. This is the only way because of the syntactic ..... > circumstantial sdm=f. The Prospective sdm.w=f, which in II Gem. verbs > geminates, but never has the .w morpheme, is less probable. > > Louis Zonhoven In Pascal Vernus' book, "future at issue" (Yale Egyptological Studies), there's a different opinion : he writes (p 31) (about the prospective sDmw=f) "after ir in the protasis of a conditional system; slightly more common than prospective sDm=f " yet p 30 : " the prospective sDmw=f and the sDm=f circumstantial share many morphological features. One may wonder wether they do not stem from the same paradigm, which could then have differentiated " On the subject, he refers to : MALAISE, M "La conjugaison suffixale dans les propositions conditionnelles introduites par ir en ancien et moyen egyptien," CdE 60, 1985 pp. 152-67 ------------------------------ From: David Lipovitch Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 09:10:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Tel Dan/Afrocentrism/BAR I agree that there is a need for a publically accessible publication that deals with Near Eastern archaeology. I disagree that that makes BAR a good thing. BAR perpetuates the "bible in one hand, spade in the other" attitude towards Levantine archaeology that has been so detrimental to the quality of excavations and interpretation of Israeli sites. If all we have is BAR then I suppose its "any port in a storm," but, I don't have to like it. David Lipovitch ------------------------------ From: David Lipovitch Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 09:13:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Hebrew transliteration schemes re: Richard Goerwitz's posting Is the reason that we use transliteration that Hebrew is difficult to typeset or is it that non-Hebrew reading bible scholars want access to the material as well? What about linguists doing comparative work who cannot read Hebrew? Why don't we do what the rest of the linguistic world would do and use IPA? David Lipovitch ------------------------------ From: "Richard L. Goerwitz" Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 08:42:18 CST Subject: Re re re... Hebrew transliteration >Is the reason that we use transliteration that Hebrew is difficult to >typeset or is it that non-Hebrew reading bible scholars want access to >the material as well? Both; that is, we transliterate both because of typesetting problems and because we want material to be more broadly accessible. As has been pointed out by many individuals, typesetting problems are going away, thanks to cheap and effective computer-based typesetting soft- ware and word processors. Access to non-Hebraists is still a concern for general linguistic treatments, and for journals that appeal to a wide biblical readership. There are some other reasons for translit- erating, which I'll cover in a moment. >What about linguists doing comparative work who >cannot read Hebrew? Why don't we do what the rest of the linguistic >world would do and use IPA? A very good suggestion, and one we've addressed. Our opinion is that, for most linguistic purposes, one should settle on one's corpus (e.g. the Tiberian text), and then use a combination of Hebrew script and IPA transcriptions. There are times, however, when the readership can- not be expected to read Hebrew script, but when the spelling is rele- vant, and can be easily elucidated by transliteration. One obvious in- stance of this is in introductory textbooks. Another is in theoretical linguistic monographs for audiences that probably don't know a word of Hebrew, but yet will need to know about certain phenomena such as qere/ ketiv divergences and matres vs. diacritics (historically different origins; reflect different phonologies). Transliterations can also be very useful when emphasizing a point, such as that the tav in shtayim is not doubled. Admittedly, these are restricted uses. But they are important ones. So, in sum, we believe that something more than pure IPA is required. Something isomorphic with the "Masoretic" script must also be used. This is the niche a transliteration system must fill. And of course there are still more people than you might realize who have trouble typesetting multidirectional text. - -Richard Goerwitz U of Chicago ------------------------------ From: e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Wardini) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 16:42:39 +0100 Subject: Re: Tel Dan/Afrocentrism/BAR >I agree that there is a need for a publically accessible publication that >deals with Near Eastern archaeology. I disagree that that makes BAR a >good thing. BAR perpetuates the "bible in one hand, spade in the other" >attitude towards Levantine archaeology that has been so detrimental to the >quality of excavations and interpretation of Israeli sites. If all we >have is BAR then I suppose its "any port in a storm," but, I don't have >to like it. > >David Lipovitch Here in Oslo we have a journal that deal with the Middle East (Middle East Forum). We have tried hard to make o sort of layman's window to the scholar's world. It has worked fine in Norwegian terms. We have managed to keep it from tilting in one direction (pro this or the other group) and we managed to cover a wide range of subjects from Ebla to modern literature. Our definition of Middle East is wide. It would be nice to have something similar on an international basis, and instead of the Middle East (which is really a political term), one could use another title to cover basically the same subject area as the present list. For this to work (based on our experience in Norway), articles in the journal would have to be written by scholars. Yet these should be as much as possible void of internal jargon (or at least explain the jargon). It should deal with "interesting" material (from the layman's point of view) yet this material should be acceptible from a scholarly point of view. It could and maybe ideally it would be a place where scholarly articles are popularized. Most important, it should bve independant from religious, political etc. standpoints. Any such journals? any interest in starting one? Elie Wardini Department for East-European and Oriental Studies Semitic languages Post Box 1030 Blindern 0315 Oslo Norway tel. off.: +47 - 22 85 71 21 home: +47 - 22 19 03 49 Fax: +47 - 22 85 41 40 e-mail: e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no ------------------------------ End of Ancient Near East Digest V1 #60 ************************************** To subscribe to ANE-Digest, send the command: subscribe ANE-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@oi.uchicago.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-ANE": subscribe ANE-digest local-ANE@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "ANE-digest" in the commands above with "ANE". 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