From: owner-ane To: ane-digest@oi.uchicago.edu Subject: Ancient Near East Digest V3 #60 Reply-To: Errors-To: owner-ane Precedence: bulk Ancient Near East Digest Saturday, 11 November 1995 Volume 03 : Number 060 Alexander's Battles Re: ANE Q? status of Heb et? Program Honoring Cyrus H. Gordon Re: "mutilation" Hurrians in Spain? ANE Q? "reversed" adjs in Hebrew? Question about Masons and Hebrew Date of EMLR, before or after 1850 BC? Re: All those duplicates explained... Question about Masons and Hebrew Re: Hurrians in Spain? e-mail request Re: H E L P with citations Neal Walls, Wayne Horowitz addresses Walls address/Kuntillet Ajrud Catalog of Gorelick Coll. [none] Re: your mail ANE Q? Aramaic "then" Reply from a Basque scholar ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Haviv101@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 22:05:33 -0500 Subject: Alexander's Battles Does anyone out there recommend a work on the battles of Alexander the Great's phenomenal conquests? No original sources or such, just a handy, accurate, detailed reference work that I could use to study and teach from. Thanks a lot. Haviv Rettig Haviv101@aol.com ------------------------------ From: eforster@ringo.loop.com (Eric Forster) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 19:23:10 -0800 Subject: Re: ANE Q? status of Heb et? >there is a great deal of concern on the status of et in Hebrew, the >so-called direct object or accusative marker, in the linguistic >literature, especially in connection with Modern Israeli Hebrew. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Vincent DeCaen decaen@epas.utoronto.ca > >Near Eastern Studies, Religion & Culture, >University of Toronto Wilfrid Laurier University As a point of interest, David Ben Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel, excluded 'et' from his vocabulary and his writings, as it 'lacked any meaningful purpose.' Eric Forster ------------------------------ From: Meir Lubetski Date: Wed, 08 Nov 95 23:22:33 EST Subject: Program Honoring Cyrus H. Gordon In conjunction with the AAR/SBL Annual Meeting there will be a special program in honor of Cyrus H. Gordon, distinguished graduate of the University of Pennsylvania, highlighting his career as a scholar and teacher. Monday, November 20, 1995. University of Pennsylvania Museum of Anthropology and Archaeology 33rd and Spruce Streets Philadelphia Program at 5:30, reception to follow Speakers: Earle Leichty, Jeffrey Tigay Sponsored by the University of Pennsylvania and NAPH Coordinated by Dr. David Silverman, Dr. Meir Lubetski, Dr. Claire Gottleib ------------------------------ From: John Younger Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 06:48:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: "mutilation" Jeff: you ask for references -- here's one, supplied (7 Nov) by one of the contributors to this post: Robert Biggs , an article on medicine in ancient Mesopotamia in _History of Science_ 8 [1969] 94-105): "There is no evidence in ancient Mesopotamia for any other deliberate mutilation of the human body [the previous paragraph discussed eunuchs in the royal harem in the Middle Assyrian period]. Circumcision was not practised." I realize that does not come out and say 'circumcision is genital mutilation' but the context does. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John G. Younger TEL: 919-684-2082 Dept of Classical Studies FAX: 919-681-4262 Duke University email: jyounger@acpub.duke.edu Durham, NC 27708-0103 art & e-mail: life is good ------------------------------ From: Ramosd@usr.bitmailer.com (Diego Ramos) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 15:15 EST Subject: Hurrians in Spain? HURRIANS IN SPAIN? I would like to initiate a discussion on the end of the Hurrian culture in Syria and the rise of the south-eastern Iberian culture in Spain, suggesting that both facts may be directly linked. Around 820 BC the kingdom of Hamath, in northern Syria, was conquered by the Aramean tribes lead by Zakir. The fall of Hamath implied the end of a unique cultural experience. Notwithstanding the Neo-Hittite and Aramean elements in its culture, Hamath had managed to retain a strong Hurrian cultural heritage from the days in which the whole area (including Qatna and Aleppo) was populated mainly by Hurrians. This heritage is attested, at least, in the names of its kings during the ninth century BC (eg, king Urkhilina).=20 Nevertheless, its is very likely that the Hurrian culture of Hamath did not disappear after the fall of the town. On the Mediterranean shore, in the westernmost corner of the kingdom, there was a place called now Amrit, which the ancient Greeks denominated Marathos. Taking into account that the Aramean offensive started from inner Syria, Amrit was the obvious area of settlement for Hurrian refugees from Hamath. Amrit appears to have been much more than a temporary refuge. Placed just in front of the Phoenician isle-town of Arwad, it had a direct access to the Phoenician sea routes about to be opened by then. Cyprus and the archaic Greek commercial bases in the coast of Syria (Al-Mina) were also nearby. Amrit was, indeed, an excellent spot to develop a multicultural mixing Phoenician, Cypriot, Palestinian and Greek elements. This could have had an immediate impact on its writing, its language and its art, much of which is still unknown for us. As far as the architecture is concerned, there are still in place two burial monuments which show a peculiar style, very dissimilar to other buildings of the area. The structure consists of a well-proportionated tower, with a lion at each of the four corners and the burial chamber inside. During the next centuries, Amrit was dominated either by its neighbours of Syria, starting with the Arameans or by its neighbours of Arwad who eventually destroyed the city after a revolt. By then, the Hurrian culture had disappeared from Amrit long time ago, probably by the beginning of the eighth century BC. This date is particularly intriguing, since it is also the starting point of the south-eastern Iberian culture of Spain. A culture developed in the westernmost limits of the Phoenician commercial routes and whose main features are so close to the Syrian and Neo-Hittite patterns that the traditional explanation of a Phoenician "intermediation" has been often criticized. In order to avoid inaccurate generalizations, I will focus on a very small area, around the Spanish town of Albacete. Spanish archaeologists found there, some decades ago, a burial building which is deemed as the only Mediterranean monument directly linked to the towers of Amrit (the "Pozo Moro" burial tower, now installed in the National Archaeologic Museum in Madrid). The impressive monument shows not only the expectable four Neo-Hittite lions, but also impressive bas-reliefs on the four sides of the tower which are thought to represent scenes of the Gilgamesh poem (with themes being taken from Tablet XII in particular). The building has been dated "not after year 500 BC". There are other examples of similar Neo-Hittite zoomorphic sculptures in the neighbourhood of Pozo Moro (eg Balazote). Burial towers and zoomorphic sculptures are not the only traces of a possible Hurrian presence in Contestania (the ancient name of the area). In the course of this century, Spanish archaeologists have discovered several ancient documents in the same region, written using a semi-syllabic system which is a combination of Phoenician, Palestinian, Egyptian, Cypriot and Greek signs (being, at the same time, different from the eastern Iberian script). It is exactly the sort of system expectable if the people responsible for building Pozo Moro came actually from Amrit. The Contestanian script (also called "bastulo-turdetana") was deciphered by a Spanish scholar, Mr. Manuel G=A2mez Moreno more than 25 years ago. Nevertheless, no conclusive explanation of the contents of the Contestanian documents has been provided until now.=20 There are also two external supporting arguments. Two Roman historians, Salustius (Jug, 18) and Plinius (n.h. 3,8) wrote about the conquest of Spain by a group of Persians, Medians and Armenians just before the installation of the Phoenicians in Spain. These news have remained unexplained for a long time, since there was obvious for most scholars that an Iranian colonization of Spain was unbelievable. Taking into account the knowledge that the Carthagean sources of the Roman historians could have had about the Hurrian homelands, these references may be regarded as a relatively accurate mention to the Hurrian colonization. The other argument is provided by the Basque language. Now, it is the single non Indo-European language not only of Spain, but of Western Europe. When the Pozo Moro tower was built, more than 2500 years ago, it might have been in the neighbourhood of the Iberian and the Contestanian languages, exchanging vocabulary, morphological and syntactic patterns with them. The presence of Hurrian people in Contestania would perfectly explain why modern Basque still uses words with an unmistakable Assyrian, Egyptian, Hebrew or Sumerian origin, otherwise not justified at all. Furthermore, in addition to these loan words, well attested by the linguists studying the Basque language, it seems that there could be genuine Hurrian loans in the Basque language.=20 These Hurrian-Basque words, which are scarce but highly significant, tend to concentrate in some linguistic areas (religion, social organization) and to follow regular phonetic patterns when transferred. Good examples may be the words for "God" (Hurrian eni > Basque jainkoa, but also jin, in) or "Lord" (Hurrian ewri > Basque Jaun, Jaur- in compounds), which seem to change initial e- to ya- regularly . There are even loan words which, until now, were thought to be exclusive of the Hurrian- Mittanian linguistic framework. This is the case of number 1, aika, still used by modern Basque when forming the name of number 11, which is "amaika" and not "ama-bat" as expectable. A more exhaustive study of these possible loans, which is far beyond the scope of this message, is a task to be carried out by the Basque scholars. All these facts (with the possible exception of the loans to the Basque language), are known and almost unanimously admitted by the scholars and researchers (a document with full references to the relevant books and articles is available for anyone interested). What I am now proposing is "whether they may be jointly interpreted in the sense of supporting the idea of the presence of Hurrians in south-eastern Spain from the eighth century BC onwards".=20 A key element to confirm whether this point of view is right or not is the translation of the Contestanian documents. If they were actually written in Hurrian, no reasonable doubt about the presence of the Hamath refugees in Spain could be opposed. After several years studying these documents, I understand that this may be the case (and not because the use of words like purl/burl "temple", abi/obi "tomb" or amti "grandfather", but because the existence of a range of typically Hurrian verbal, nominal and adjective suffixes and syntactic structures[eg: amtiuiabi =3D classical Hurrian ammati-iu-hi abi, "grave of my grandfather"]). Therefore, not neglecting the historical side of the problem, I would propose to focus the discussion on the analysis of the documents. I am ready to provide to anyone interested copies of the relevant materials. I shall summarize the results of the discussion to the list.=20 Diego Ramos_Pascual Phone PW: Spain-1-3083500 Fax PW: Spain-1-3083566 Email: ramosd@usr.bitmailer.com SFC! =20 ------------------------------ From: Vincent DeCaen Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:29:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: ANE Q? "reversed" adjs in Hebrew? I was curious about the Modern Hebrew phenomenon of "reversed" adjective order. the example was tmunat ha-more ha-ca'ir ha-marshima picture(f) the-teacher(m) the-young(m) the-impressive(f) clearly there is a simple structural reason, and if you're into "phrase structure" and tree diagrams, we can discuss it offlist. but my question is, is there anything like this attested in Biblical Hebrew?? do you know offhand? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vincent DeCaen decaen@epas.utoronto.ca Near Eastern Studies, Religion & Culture, University of Toronto Wilfrid Laurier University ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion. --Oscar Wilde ------------------------------ From: Lawson_Stone@ms1.ats.wilmore.ky.us (Lawson Stone) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 11:33:54 -0500 Subject: Question about Masons and Hebrew A student of mine is doing some research on Masonic terminology and has come to me asking if there are Hebrew, aramaic, or other ancient origins of certain terms associated with freemasonry. I am totally ignorant of masonry, and my student friend was anxious not to be identified with some who see in masonry a world-wide conspiracy-another matter about which I know nothing anyway. Using BDB, KB, and a few other lexica, I came up with less than adequate answers. I also know these terms may be secret and some on the net may actually be masons and not like the discussion of these terms. I mean no offence, I just want to help out a student. The two terms he asked about, anglicized, are "giblum" and "mahaboney". If anybody knows anything on proposed etymologies of these terms and feels free to share it, I'd be grateful. Also, any replies intended as private should be so identified in the message. Our mail system here does not flag incoming messages as net-broadcasted or private. Whatever copyright laws may exist, I want to make sure I don't pass along reponses that are intended as private. Thanks in advance. If there are others who are interested, I'm happy to pass along what I find out to the extent that it is possible. - -- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The views expressed herein do not necessarily represent those of ATS. - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ From: Milo Gardner Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 09:29:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: Date of EMLR, before or after 1850 BC? Can someone assist? I am in need of an approximate date of the EMLR. Was it written before of after 1850BC, the original date of the RMP's 2/nth table? The point is important since the EMLR, as high-lited by: 1. 2/3 = 1/3 + 1/3; 2/p = 1/p + 1/p 2. 1/3 = 1/6 + 1/6, 1/5 = 1/10 + 1/10; 1/p = 1/2p + 1/2p 3. 1/2 = 1/6 + 1/6 + 1/6 ; 1/p= 1/3p + 1/3p + 1/39 4. 1/6 = 1/9 + 1/18, and several examples; 1/2p = 1/3p + 1/6p 1 7 5. 1/4 = 1/7 + 1/14 + 1/28; 1/7(1/1 + 1/2 + 1/4) = --- x --- 7 4 and additional number theory, as previously posted to ANR, can be read as an intended introduction to the RMP 2/nth table, if the date is before 1850 BC. I suspect that if the date is significantly later that 1850 BC many of the interests aspects of the EMLR may be considered as passive after thoughts. The attachment may clarify additional views of the importance of Egyptian fractions, as a forwarding looking historical window to the ancient Near East. Since historians agree hieratic fractions began in the Egyptian Middle Kingdom and a few historians agree continued to be used is various forms at least as late as 500 AD as documented by the Akhmim Papyrus, a complete write-up of the twists and turns of hieratic fractions may provide valuable insights, in unexpected areas. Milo Gardner Cryptanalyst Sacramento, CA ATTACHMENT: The Story of the Discovery of Incommersurability, Revisited, by David H. Fowler, Univeristy of Warwick, Trends in the Historigraphy of Science, 221-235, editors Kostas Gavroglu, et al, 1994, Vol 151, Boston Studies in the History of Science. Fowler introduces this critical turning point in mathematics' history by suggesting that early Pythagoreans based their proportions on geometry, by commersurable magnitudes, or on arithmetic, by common fractions m/n). To limit the scope this discussion I will stress only the arithmetic m/n alternative. A broader discussion can be provided at a later date. Fowler's article goes onto strongly suggests that Egyptian fractions were commonly used before Plato and Eudoxus, and by implication during the Hellenic era, though modified by surds and incommersurability problems and solutions. Pertinent issues worth considering today include the fact that classical Greeks did not well document their changes, except for new methods of calculation like continuing fractions. Fowler's proposal is that Hellene Greeks viewed ratios outside our view of common fractions, we modern scholars therefore poorly understand Hellenic views. My point of view on the broader history of Egyptian fractions issue is that the main body of mathematical evidence, looking backward through Classical Greek, especially using geometry and arithmetrical geometry, is heavily anecdotal. Modern scholars had acknowledged that Hellenic views on specific ideas like ratios is easily blurred. I have long ago accepted Fowler's proposition that Egyptian fractions was used by Greeks, before and after Eudoxus, and I have asked many of the same questions, to myself and here on the internet, that he has posed. As a discussion point, has anyone else considered that Egyptian fractions were pertinent only in the domain of rational numbers and therefore the 1,700 year old notation was mortally wounded in the 4th century battle of surds and the geometric aspect of commensurability? In another David Fowler article, he asked, in "400 years of decimal fractions", published in Mathematical Teaching 110 (1985), Were unit fraction calculations always possible (possibly referencing the post- Eodoxian period)? My answer is, for sure, irrationals such as the square root of 2, 3 and 6 could not have been exactly written as Egyptian fractions, or any other type of fraction. However, Greeks knew early on that irrationals and higher order numbers required another notation, and developed the continuing fractions technique, as an approximation (much as 1700 BC Babylonians had approximated 1/p within their view of base 60 unit fractions) and therefore continued to use Egyptian fractions (within the domain of rational numbers). May I stress this point again? Is it not interesting that mainstream Hellenic culture continued to use Egyptian fractions for rational number situations, such as documented by the 500 AD Akhmim Papyrus? That is to say, much like our 200 year old debate over complex numbers, which 'philosophers' even today, commonly label imaginary numbers, irrational numbers were not commonly accepted by Classic and Hellenic Greeks. In several respects, it is unfortunate that Hellenic and modern 'philosophers' have left confusing anecdotal markers which are often reported as history, in the name of Pythagoras, Plato and other Greeks. I should comment at this point that attested history has not concluded, one way or the other if Pythagoras, Plato, Aristotle and other important ancient academics fully accepted or rejected the practical and theoretical use of irrationals in their lifetimes. What we do know is that the vast majority of attested sources report revisionist anecedotes, and very little mathematics. Various labels have been attached the revisionistss, the most common being neo-Pythagorean and Neo-Platonic. Given that there is a lack of a solid foundation, leaves a road filled with pot holes for anyone attempting to discuss unit fractions, surds and incommensurability, I have reached a methodological conclusion. As a cryptanayst, I have not found a well defined arithmetical language to compare against ancient texts, when looking backwards through time. What I have found is a simple form of ancient bookkeeping. Unit fractions, particularily the hieratic form, can be seen as assets and liabilities. Fractions, p/q and m/n, can be seen as the 'hidden' assets and unit fraction series as liabiliities, that appear to connect to nothing. Therefore, in an attempt to decode an arithmetic language from acutal mathematical documents for the express purpose to better understand the history of Egyptian fractions several ancient texts reveal an algebraic syntax, one where p/q and m/n vividly appear. My studies commenced with 2,000 BC, showing 2/7 = 1/6 + 1/10 + 1/15, as used by the Moscow Papyrus, and I have gone on to stesss the EMLR, with an unknown date, and the RMP 2/nth table of 1650 BC, where 2/7 = 1/4 + 1/28 and a single rule for 2/p unit fraction series. Again, I would be happy to share my research on a private or public basis, with anyone that requests a summary. A a hint of the scope of my emergent view of Egyptian fractions please refer to EMLR as posted here, a couple of weeks ago, or log onto http://www.teleport.com/~ddonahue/, looking under Egyptology page, papers. Milo Gardner Cryptanalyst Sacramento, CA > Kluwer, 1994, vol. 151 of the Boston Studies in the History of Science. > > > ------------------------------ From: "David E. Wheeler" Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:28:09 -0500 Subject: Re: All those duplicates explained... At 3:25 PM 11/8/95, Charles E. Jones wrote: >On the other hand, _do_ go and visit the Detroit Institute of Art's >Department of Ancient Art which is developing under Bill's oversight, at: > >http://oeonline.com:80/~dia/ancient.html I have added this link to the UVa AnthroNet, as well as a form to subscribe to the SAMARITAN Email List. http://darwin.clas.virginia.edu/~dew7e/anthronet/ David David E. Wheeler, Archaeology Graduate Student Department of Anthropology, University of Virginia Email: Wheeler@Virginia.edu WWW: http://darwin.clas.virginia.edu/~dew7e/ ------------------------------ From: Lawson_Stone@ms1.ats.wilmore.ky.us (Lawson Stone) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 16:00:03 -0500 Subject: Question about Masons and Hebrew A student of mine is doing some research on Masonic terminology and has come to me asking if there are Hebrew, aramaic, or other ancient origins of certain terms associated with freemasonry. I am totally ignorant of masonry, and my student friend was anxious not to be identified with some who see in masonry a world-wide conspiracy-another matter about which I know nothing anyway. Using BDB, KB, and a few other lexica, I came up with less than adequate answers. I also know these terms may be secret and some on the net may actually be masons and not like the discussion of these terms. I mean no offence, I just want to help out a student. The two terms he asked about, anglicized, are "giblum" and "mahaboney". If anybody knows anything on proposed etymologies of these terms and feels free to share it, I'd be grateful. Also, any replies intended as private should be so identified in the message. Our mail system here does not flag incoming messages as net-broadcasted or private. Whatever copyright laws may exist, I want to make sure I don't pass along reponses that are intended as private. Thanks in advance. If there are others who are interested, I'm happy to pass along what I find out to the extent that it is possible. - -- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The views expressed herein do not necessarily represent those of ATS. - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ From: Jose Rubio Pardo Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 16:03:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Hurrians in Spain? On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, Diego Ramos wrote: > Around 820 BC the kingdom of Hamath, in northern Syria, was > conquered by the Aramean tribes lead by Zakir. The fall of Hamath Some scholars have argued that Hamath was a vassal state of Israel during David's reign (Malamat, _JNES_ 22 [1963]: 6-7), To`i being the king of Hamath, but that might be just the impression the Dtr narrator wanted to give (Alhstrom, _The History of Ancient Palestine..._, JSOT Suppl. 146: 483-484). Irhulena's (good Hurrian name) successor was Zakku:r (good Hurrian name, by the way "Zakir" is an old tranliteration), king of=20 Hamath. It is very difficult (almost impossible) to find good reasons to=20 prove that Zakku:r was a "conqueror" instead of a mere usurper. Besides=20 Ahlstrom's book, you can find interesting information in W. T. Pitard,=20 _Ancient Damascus_ (Winona Lake: Eisenbrauns, 1987), passim. > Amrit appears to have been much more than a temporary refuge.... The fact that Hamath and Amrit were part of the same Neo-Hittite "area of= =20 influence", sharing many Hurrian cultural features, would be enough=20 to explain many of those points. I don't see why one should think of such a= =20 migration of refugees. > > In order to avoid inaccurate generalizations, I will focus on a > very small area, around the Spanish town of Albacete. Spanish > archaeologists found there, some decades ago, a burial building > which is deemed as the only Mediterranean monument directly > linked to the towers of Amrit.........=20 Of course, El Pozo del Moro presents many "orientalizing" features, but, as= =20 you know very well, that's by no means any sort of singularity in our=20 country. As I suppossed you already aware, Almagro Gorbea and my dear Prof.= =20 Blazquez have written extensively about that. I still don't see any=20 evidence of a migration. See E. A. Llobregat in Unterman & Villar, op.=20 cit. below, 159 ff. > of the area). In the course of this century, Spanish > archaeologists have discovered several ancient documents in the > same region, written using a semi-syllabic system which is a > combination of Phoenician, Palestinian, Egyptian, Cypriot and > Greek signs (being, at the same time, different from the eastern > Iberian script). It is exactly the sort of system expectable if > the people responsible for building Pozo Moro came actually from > Amrit. The Contestanian script (also called "bastulo-turdetana") > was deciphered by a Spanish scholar, Mr. Manuel G=A2mez Moreno more > than 25 years ago. Nevertheless, no conclusive explanation of the > contents of the Contestanian documents has been provided until > now.=20 I wouldn't say that Gomez Moreno's ideas (at least, all of them) are the=20 current ones among all the scholars working on that field. A good place=20 to look at --as communis opinio--, would be J. de Hoz's article in J.=20 Untermann & F. Villar, _Lengua y Cultura en la Hispania Prerromana_=20 (Salamanca: 1993): 635 ff. > The other argument is provided by the Basque language. Now, it is We have NO trace of Basque (Euskara) before the "Glosas Emilianenses",=20 tenth century A.D. Von Humboldt's old assumptions of the Iberic language=20 as "Old Basque" have no follower nowadays (besides Roman del Cerro's=20 amateuristic approach [_El Origen Iberico de la Lengua Vasca_ (Alicante,=20 1993)] --nobody bought his theories...). A better and more accurate=20 "status quaestionis": J. M. Anderson's article in Unterman & Villar, op.=20 cit., 487 ff. > These Hurrian-Basque words, which are scarce but highly > significant, tend to concentrate in some linguistic areas > (religion, social organization) and to follow regular phonetic > patterns when transferred. Good examples may be the words for > "God" (Hurrian eni > Basque jainkoa, but also jin, in) or "Lord" > (Hurrian ewri > Basque Jaun, Jaur- in compounds), which seem to > change initial e- to ya- regularly . There are even loan words > which, until now, were thought to be exclusive of the Hurrian- > Mittanian linguistic framework. This is the case of number 1, > aika, still used by modern Basque when forming the name of number > 11, which is "amaika" and not "ama-bat" as expectable. A more > exhaustive study of these possible loans, which is far beyond the > scope of this message, is a task to be carried out by the Basque > scholars. I guess you are dealing with Batua (common) forms. That's a methodological problem (pace the late Koldo Mitxelena). You should use dialectal forms, as jaungoikoa (god=3D lord of heaven or the like). Regarding the numeral= 1, aika appears in Kikulli's manual on horses (a Hurrian writing in Hittite)= , but it's NOT Hurrian, but and Indo-Iranian loanword (as many others in the Mittanian cultural milieu), see Vedic Sanskrit eka- "one" (Kammenhuber _Hippologia Hethitica_). Regarding the unexpected amaika, read A. Tovar's "Esp. amarraco, vac. amar, amai y el toponimo Amaya" (in _Ethymmologica W. von Wartburg zum siebzigsten Geburstag_ [Tubingen, 1958]: 831 ff.) > A key element to confirm whether this point of view is right or > not is the translation of the Contestanian documents. If they > were actually written in Hurrian, no reasonable doubt about the > presence of the Hamath refugees in Spain could be opposed. After > several years studying these documents, I understand that this > may be the case (and not because the use of words like purl/burl > "temple", abi/obi "tomb" or amti "grandfather", but because the > existence of a range of typically Hurrian verbal, nominal and > adjective suffixes and syntactic structures[eg: amtiuiabi =3D > classical Hurrian ammati-iu-hi abi, "grave of my grandfather"]). > Therefore, not neglecting the historical side of the problem, I > would propose to focus the discussion on the analysis of the > documents. I am ready to provide to anyone interested copies of > the relevant materials. I shall summarize the results of the > discussion to the list.=20 As far as I know (and I had the honor of studying many of these problems with J. de Hoz some years ago), we have just a tiny number of (mostly contextual) clues to understand all those words, so the meanings you give a= re just possibilities, nothing else. For instance, words like abaio or aboki (I guess your abi- element comes from them --why "tomb"???) are Personal=20 Names, according to most scholars (Untermann, De Hoz, etc.). You are, however, quite right about the importance of Constestania. In=20 that region, both Iberic (?) writing systems were used (the Southern and=20 the Eastern), the Southern one disappearing after the third century B.C.=20 Nevertheless, it's very difficult to draw any conclussion based on=20 uncertain, scattered, and obscure evidences. Thanks a lot: Gonzalo Rubio Near Eastern Studies Johns Hopkins University ------------------------------ From: Anselm.Hagedorn.3@nd.edu (Anselm Hagedorn) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:28:34 -0500 Subject: e-mail request Could anyone provide me with the e-mail address of Stuart Lasine/Wichita State Univ., Kansas? Thank you very much! Anselm. C. Hagedorn Department of Theology University of Notre Dame - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A good day at University beats a bad day of windsurfing, but there are no bad days of windsurfing ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "H.Al-Fassi" Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:32:39 GMT0BST Subject: Re: H E L P with citations To Alan Adler, Answerring to some of the question you raised in August, but I shall check more information later on if nobody else answers you, I know it hal beel long since the message came out, but i just read it, by the way i work a lot with this courpus, specially the second part of it that concerns the Aramaic inscriptions, and some of the fourth part of the Himyaritic inscriptions. Al-Hamadanium, Djazira: is Abu AlHassan AlHamadani, Sifat Jasszeerat Al'arab. (writer of the about the tenth cet.) Huber, Journal: is Charles Huber, Journal d'une expedition archeologique en Arabie, (1889). It is a frensh book, the name maybe not very acurate, i'm writing from memory. Ma'udium, murjdj adahab viii, Abu alHassan AlMa'udi, Muruj Addahab. written in the 9th cet. Hatoon Alfassi, Manchester University Middle Eastern Studies Dept. Manchester M13 9PL e-mail: Hatoon Alfassi Mfneha1@stud.man.ac.uk ------------------------------ From: Seth L Sanders Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:07:48 -0500 Subject: Neal Walls, Wayne Horowitz addresses Hi, I was wondering if anyone had the addresses of Neal Walls of Emory U and/or Wayne Horowitz of Hebrew U (neither are in the ane directory). Please reply off-list. Thanks a lot! Seth Sanders Johns Hopkins ------------------------------ From: Seth L Sanders Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:17:38 -0500 Subject: Walls address/Kuntillet Ajrud Thanks for the prompt replies for Neal; Wayne I may have to contact via messenger pigeon. Does anyone know of publications of new material from Kuntillet Ajrud since the stuff compiled in Shmuel Ahituv's collection of Hebrew Inscriptions? Gratefully, Seth Sanders Johns Hopkins University ------------------------------ From: Barbara Adele Porter Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:11:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Catalog of Gorelick Coll. Recently unearthed in excavations of The Brooklyn Museum's book storeroom: Madeline Noveck, _The Mark of Ancient Man: Ancient Near Eastern Stamp Seals and Cylinder Seals from the Gorelick Collection_. 96 pp., 90 ill. Three copies remaining. Donald Spanel bap6@columbia.edu ------------------------------ From: Hokan Pettersson Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 01:23:17 GMT Subject: [none] Does somebody have the email address to my friend Eric I used to know as I= kid? And while you=B4re at it, could you find the Email address to the cat that used to run around my house making squeeking noises at midnight and had a fur that was black with a white spot on the head? What do you mean this is the wrong area? ------------------------------ From: Paul Flint Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:39:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: your mail On Sat, 11 Nov 1995, Hokan Pettersson wrote: > > Does somebody have the email address to my friend Eric I used to know as I kid? Perhaps. If his name is as important to him as it is to you, you should know that someone recently registered an entire domain, ERIC.COM. If not, have you tried this web site?: "What is ERIC? . The Educational Resources Information Center (ERIC) is a national information system designed to provide users with ready access to an extensive body of education-related literature. Established in 1966, ERIC is supported by ... --- [58] http://www.cua.edu/www/eric_ae/pocket.html (11K) " > And while you're at it, could you find the Email address to the cat that > used to run around my house making squeeking noises at midnight and had a > fur that was black with a white spot on the head? Alas, not, I'm afraid. However, if you're really feeling lonely for that old feline of yours, try: http://www.anada.com/plg/cindys/blackcat.html > What do you mean this is the wrong area? Oh, no, oh master! You're wish is our command! Any other questions for the group??? ------------------------------ From: Vincent DeCaen Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 11:25:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: ANE Q? Aramaic "then" in reviewing Rosenthal's BAramaic grammar, I wondered about edayin, bedayin "then", also we'edayin "and then". I wondered about its idiomatic usage, if any, in later Palestinian dialects; and whether there was some connection with (kai) euthus in the Greek of Mark. just curious. if you have something interesting in this regard, send also to Rod Decker rdecker@inf.net. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vincent DeCaen decaen@epas.utoronto.ca Near Eastern Studies, Religion & Culture, University of Toronto Wilfrid Laurier University ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion. --Oscar Wilde ------------------------------ From: Peter Daniels Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:28:32 -0600 Subject: Reply from a Basque scholar I am not on the ANE list, but a colleague who is has kindly passed on the recent postings by Diego Ramos and Jose' Rubio Pardo about a possible Near Eastern presence in ancient Spain. While I am not competent to comment on most of the other issues raised, I am a specialist in Basque, and I'd like to make a few comments on the Basque materials cited in the postings. First of all, it is not true that Basque contains words "with an unmistakable Assyrian, Egyptian, Hebrew or Sumerian origin". While many people have certainly attempted to identify such words in Basque (and the enterprise is still in full swing today), not one of their proposals has won the slightest degree of acceptance among specialists, and it is a fact that all such proposals have been made by scholars with little or no knowledge of Basque. All that has turned up is a handful of vague chance resemblances, of the sort that can always be found between any two arbitrary languages. Equally impressive matches can be found between Basque and any other language you might choose to look at, including English. There is indeed a Basque word _jainko_ ~ _jinko_ `God', and it is a puzzle. This word exists alongside the more widespread _Jaungoikoa_, literally `lord on high', which looks very much like a calque on a Romance original, since it has a very un-Basque structure. No one knows if _jainko_ represents a contraction of _Jaungoikoa_ or an unrelated word. Some have tried to interpret _jainko_ as an ancient indigenous Basque word, but there is a very large difficulty with this: native Basque words of any antiquity do not contain the cluster _nk_, because this cluster was systematically converted to _ng_ at some time after the Roman period. (Note for example Basque _ingude_ `anvil', borrowed from Latin _incude_.) Hence it is scarcely likely that _jainko_ can be ancient in Basque; whatever its origin, it can scarcely be older than the medieval period. Moreover, this word does *not* have the cited variants _jin_ and _in_. I am not aware that a word _in_ exists at all in any relevant sense. A form _jin_ does exist, but this is merely an eastern variant of the universal _jaun_ `lord'. There is no doubt that _jaun_ is an indigenous Basque word, but it must derive regularly from earlier *_eaun_, not from a supposed *_eun_. This is an extremely unusual form for a noun, and the word looks for all the world like the participle of an ancient verb. Many vasconists are therefore inclined to see the word as a specialization of an ancient participle, meaning perhaps something like `revered' or `exalted'. True, the word has a combining form _jaur-_, but then virtually all ancient nouns ending in _-n_ exhibit combining forms in _-r-_: _oin_ `foot', _oihan_ `forest', _ohoin_ `thief', and many others. The origin of this alternation is not known, but it is very dangerous to suppose that *_jaur-_ represents the original form of the word. As for the numeral `one', the universal Basque word is _bat_, which is certainly derived from earlier *_bada_ or *_bade_. The numeral _hamaika_ `eleven' is certainly enigmatic, but it does not contain a supposed *_aika_. The evidence of Old Bizkaian _amaeka_ shows clearly that *_ama(r)-eka_ is the original form. Many have supposed that this *_-eka_ must represent an ancient word for `one', but there is absolutely no evidence to support such a conclusion. Tovar proposed to derive _hamaika_ from _amai_ `end', but this etymology is probably accepted by no one today, since the form is wrong, and Michelena (the late doyen of Basque historical linguistics) in fact preferred to derive _amai_ itself from _hamabi_ `twelve'. Michelena also puts forward an etymology for _hamaika_. Since _bat_ `one' has a combining form _bede-_ in several cases (_bederatzi_ `nine', _bedera_ `one apiece'), Michelena suggests *_hamar-bede-ka_ `ten-one-Adverb' as the source of _hamaika_, an etymology which has won some support among specialists. Concerning the earliest attestation of Basque, it is true that Basque _sensu stricto_ is not attested before the tenth century. However, probably all specialists now accept that the ancient Aquitanian language was an ancestral form of Basque -- and Aquitanian in Roman times is overwhelmingly attested *north* of the Pyrenees. South of the Pyrenees, the evidence for Aquitanian is sparse in the extreme. It is certainly attested only in Navarra. Farther south, in the Ebro valley, and farther east, in Aragon and modern Catalonia, we have no certain evidence, but only a few names (mostly place names) which look as if they *might* be Aquitanian. Consequently, specialists do not agree on the question of the southern and eastern limits of Aquitanian in Spain, but it would surely be very dangerous to assume an Aquitanian/Basque presence in eastern Spain at any period, except in the Pyrenees. Moreover, as one correspondent points out, the old Basque/Iberian identification is supported by no one today apart from a hopeful few, probably none of whom are specialists in Basque. The recent book by Roma'n del Cerro is absurd beyond comment. Whatever case one might try to make for a Near Eastern presence in ancient Spain, then, Basque can contribute nothing to the case. Larry Trask COGS University of Sussex Brighton BN1 9QH England larryt@cogs.susx.ac.uk ------------------------------ End of Ancient Near East Digest V3 #60 ************************************** Back issues are available by two means: anonymous FTP at oi.uchicago.edu in pub/ane/ OR on the World Wide Web (WWW) at ftp://oi.uchicago.edu/pub/ane/